People still play RDW in Extended? I was kind of disheartened when they played Extended for the MTGO Championship at Worlds and the Red decks finished like 0-4 and 1-3. Is it doing well?
great article....As for tournament practice room. i dont go there...id rather practice in 2 mans or DE's...I get a real feel for the deck that way. Monored is like 50% of the field ina DE nowadays
I am not surprised by your decision to pass on the PRE torch for TWA but I am a little disappointed. I mentioned this in our conversations already though, so I won't harp on it here. Time is always a problem with creative, productive people so I can only hope this means good things for the rest of your life. As always you can find me to play with in the casual rooms whenever you like. Have a good holiday. :)
Nice article deluxeicoff. The analysis you gave is accurate and informative, and like most readers I love to see decklists...and you came through quite well with those! This type of article can be difficult due to the plethora of versions for any deck, but I think you handled it well.
I agree with SpikeBoyM that Post decks should have been listed too, but I don't recall any of them winning a large turnout event recently so I can see why you didn't mention them. Perhaps you can reply with your analysis of that deck as well? I think they have some very good game against other decks, but would welcome your opinion. The mirror match is VERY interesting.
Strange how you didn't offer an analysis of WW though, didn't you win an event or two with it? ;)
Delicious
Hi. Interesting critiques. I like the Jinxed Idol tech. I played a casual R/B with Bloodthrone Vampire/Viscera Seer/Act of Treason/Mark of Mutiny combo and Jinxed Idol. It works pretty well. I'll see if I can cram it into the sideboard, as I would like to shore up that U/W match up as much as possible.
Everybody is against Mox, but I don't think it's useless. There are instances where it acts as a critical land drop. It's still at 2 in my last article, but I cut it down to 1 a week later. Eventually, I'll probably get them all, but I don't know just yet.
I agree with the no-non-basics. I cut 'em a while ago, and I think I quoted Price and used that analysis in this or the last article. There are times where you actually would miss the extra Panic effect or +2, but I was burned enough times with 3 goblin tokens, a tapped out opponent, 2 lands, with chieftain and peaks in my hand :((
In theory, it bothers me that I don't have a peak or two to tutor up via Primeval Titan, but that situation has only come up once or twice, and I think I won regardless of an extra 4 damage. Other than this minor detail, I haven't really regretted having all basics in the least bit. Although I think the King of Beatdown would be interested in seeing the non-basics that have come out in the past couple of years. When he was around the Invasion tap lands were among the most solid duals around; now we treat them as pretty much unplayable. I think he might grab himself playsets of Lavaclaw Reaches, Blackcleave Cliffs, and Dragonskull Summit.
I agree that Masticore is a beast if you get to untap with it. But I think it's tough to be able to curve out with him. I explain this more fully in a later article, but I think Koth is just a little faster, since he gets to hit right away for 4, without the risk of dying to Doom Blade, or getting nailed by Gatekeeper.
Although I think for the current meta, Masticore is improving because I think U/B cut Consuming Vapors when they decided to cut Abyssal Persecutor. Plus, I only run 18 creatures too, and a good amount of the time, there will be nothing in the yard for you, although as you said, this will improve with Idol out of the board.
Thanks for the insightful comments. I'm looking forward to testing some Jinxed Idol.
Oh 1 more thing about SS Elder is that he is pretty good in the B/R Vampires match up. The game is going to go long, so it provides late-game card advantage. If you get it out early before you untap with 3 mana, they will usually waste a removal spell on it, as they have a ton of vulnerable creatures (Tracker + Bloodghast + Seer).
It also saved me once or twice by shooting down 2-3 Hawks.
I think it's just striking the right balance. To me, he's sort of like Burst Lightning: just an overall solid role-player that doesn't do broken things, but has no bad match ups.
Sometimes you want the burn/removal, sometimes you want an extra goblin to go along with chieftain.
Overall a great article. 2 minor quibbles:
1) You make no mention of Cloudpost decks which have been on the rise as of late.
2) I understand that the Affinity list provided may be the most consistent finisher, but I think you are doing the readers a disservice by not mentioning the new lists that came out with Scars of Mirrodin. Having access to 8 4/4s on the cheap is sure to make the deck stronger.
RE badmalloc: The event convered is a little dated, usually I mention which time period was covered in an article but I guess I forgot to in this one, sorry about that.
RE Lythand: Always welcome brother.
RE Jarunik: it's funny how important simple things can be sometimes. It was nice to get my pack several hours earlier than I would otherwise have. So tx again.
RE responses: I'm glad I put the question in there, there has been a lot of good discussion here.
I can identify with feeling overwhelmed with a PRE. I'm probably going to have to find a way to cut down on some of the time I spend on the Heirloom events myself. It's great that you have the replacement already set up to keep continuity. I'm sure the break from the grind of it will be liberating to a great extent.
The only constant in life is change, and that's not always a bad thing.
I've taken a pass on pauper for quite some time but for the new or even moderately experienced player this is a really nice analysis and summary of the better decks in pauper.
Great graphics, great presentation. Might I suggest as a small note perhaps the creative use of space. Maybe when you have some of your breaks they could be separated out by some more white page in between some of the elements.
I'll have to agree to disagree on twisted image. I just won another 8-4 in a poison deck that featured two of them and they were house as always (few examples - his riddlesmith with lifestaff blocked cystbearer on my t4 twice and died to image and held bearer both times - this loss of tempo is devastating and allowing me to have continued pressure is bad news as well, killed a wall of tanglecord, and made a molder beast a 3/9).
Re: The Trigon/Accorder's Shield comment.
It doesn't matter if it's power or toughness, there are situations where you'd rather have trigon be an accorder's shield and vice versa. That was my case and point with those cards in relation to image.
Absolutely true though those goblin decks are not the threat most people bring when they bring goblins. They bring the I kill you on turn 4-5 if you don't plop a moat down and even then its a matter of time before I top deck the bolt that kills you.
Great logic and read. Quite eye-opening to see the numbers up front/unbias. Try out pauper - at most it'll cost ya 30 tix to be able to build every deck, and then your literally set for life. Great competition and weekly ways to fit the urge to compete.
I hope someone at wizard$ got REALLY nervous at reading this :)
Goblins don't even need to attack to win. Siege-Gang Commander, Lightning Crafter, Goblin Sharpshooter, and Murderous Redcap can take care of that. Of course without Moat, Goblin players don't need to think that far ahead...
Lord Erman, if I may ask, how do you playtest? Just curious because you mentioned, "I played countless many test matches against every possible deck type and finally ended up with this list". I guess you have somebody to play a bunch of heirloom matches against?
Xaos, I'm confused about the week 2 results from the league. Aren't we still in week 1??
How so? It kept (to some degree) the aggro landed tribes in check. Without Moat Gobs/Elves/Soldiers are too fast to really be stopped (more Gobs and Elves than the others.) I do not see how Moat was broken in any shape or form. Even red can bring removal in the form of artifacts. (Disk, Stone, Ratchet, Explosives, etc.)
I will have to make a mental note when drawing SS Elder, and see if I would rather have a Devastating Summons. There are still several concrete examples in my mind where SS Elder is just nice to have as a first turn Goblin, giving you 10 Goblin spells you can cast on Turn 1 (4 Rebirth 4 GG and 2 SS Elder).
I am sloooooowly weaning myself off Moxen. Eventually I'll cut 'em all.
Thanks for reading guys.
P.S.
On a side note, I find it extremely sad that WOTC decided to make the best Red hosers Red spells: Arc Trail and Pyroclasm. All the other decks can play around Arc Trail a lot easier than us, i.e. Boros, WW Quest, and B/R Vamps.
On another side note, I did not encounter any WW in my tournaments this week, but I adjusted the SB to shore up that match up even more: 3 Shatter 2 Brittle Effigy 2 Perilous Myr and 4 Chimeric Mass (oh and Searing Blaze). The 3 Shatters provide good outs to Quest, as I agree, a Turn 1 Quest into Turn 3 AA is just tough to race. Staying untapped and having Shatter really helps. And you have 8 answers to a possible 4 Firewalkers, so I feel like that problem is solved. WIthout AA, their guys just die to burn and Koth like you said.
People still play RDW in Extended? I was kind of disheartened when they played Extended for the MTGO Championship at Worlds and the Red decks finished like 0-4 and 1-3. Is it doing well?
great article....As for tournament practice room. i dont go there...id rather practice in 2 mans or DE's...I get a real feel for the deck that way. Monored is like 50% of the field ina DE nowadays
I am not surprised by your decision to pass on the PRE torch for TWA but I am a little disappointed. I mentioned this in our conversations already though, so I won't harp on it here. Time is always a problem with creative, productive people so I can only hope this means good things for the rest of your life. As always you can find me to play with in the casual rooms whenever you like. Have a good holiday. :)
Nice article deluxeicoff. The analysis you gave is accurate and informative, and like most readers I love to see decklists...and you came through quite well with those! This type of article can be difficult due to the plethora of versions for any deck, but I think you handled it well.
I agree with SpikeBoyM that Post decks should have been listed too, but I don't recall any of them winning a large turnout event recently so I can see why you didn't mention them. Perhaps you can reply with your analysis of that deck as well? I think they have some very good game against other decks, but would welcome your opinion. The mirror match is VERY interesting.
Strange how you didn't offer an analysis of WW though, didn't you win an event or two with it? ;)
I look forward to your future articles.
-RBJ
Delicious
Hi. Interesting critiques. I like the Jinxed Idol tech. I played a casual R/B with Bloodthrone Vampire/Viscera Seer/Act of Treason/Mark of Mutiny combo and Jinxed Idol. It works pretty well. I'll see if I can cram it into the sideboard, as I would like to shore up that U/W match up as much as possible.
Everybody is against Mox, but I don't think it's useless. There are instances where it acts as a critical land drop. It's still at 2 in my last article, but I cut it down to 1 a week later. Eventually, I'll probably get them all, but I don't know just yet.
I agree with the no-non-basics. I cut 'em a while ago, and I think I quoted Price and used that analysis in this or the last article. There are times where you actually would miss the extra Panic effect or +2, but I was burned enough times with 3 goblin tokens, a tapped out opponent, 2 lands, with chieftain and peaks in my hand :((
In theory, it bothers me that I don't have a peak or two to tutor up via Primeval Titan, but that situation has only come up once or twice, and I think I won regardless of an extra 4 damage. Other than this minor detail, I haven't really regretted having all basics in the least bit. Although I think the King of Beatdown would be interested in seeing the non-basics that have come out in the past couple of years. When he was around the Invasion tap lands were among the most solid duals around; now we treat them as pretty much unplayable. I think he might grab himself playsets of Lavaclaw Reaches, Blackcleave Cliffs, and Dragonskull Summit.
I agree that Masticore is a beast if you get to untap with it. But I think it's tough to be able to curve out with him. I explain this more fully in a later article, but I think Koth is just a little faster, since he gets to hit right away for 4, without the risk of dying to Doom Blade, or getting nailed by Gatekeeper.
Although I think for the current meta, Masticore is improving because I think U/B cut Consuming Vapors when they decided to cut Abyssal Persecutor. Plus, I only run 18 creatures too, and a good amount of the time, there will be nothing in the yard for you, although as you said, this will improve with Idol out of the board.
Thanks for the insightful comments. I'm looking forward to testing some Jinxed Idol.
P.S. There is another article up and hopefully one last one on the way. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
Oh 1 more thing about SS Elder is that he is pretty good in the B/R Vampires match up. The game is going to go long, so it provides late-game card advantage. If you get it out early before you untap with 3 mana, they will usually waste a removal spell on it, as they have a ton of vulnerable creatures (Tracker + Bloodghast + Seer).
It also saved me once or twice by shooting down 2-3 Hawks.
I think it's just striking the right balance. To me, he's sort of like Burst Lightning: just an overall solid role-player that doesn't do broken things, but has no bad match ups.
Sometimes you want the burn/removal, sometimes you want an extra goblin to go along with chieftain.
deleted
Overall a great article. 2 minor quibbles:
1) You make no mention of Cloudpost decks which have been on the rise as of late.
2) I understand that the Affinity list provided may be the most consistent finisher, but I think you are doing the readers a disservice by not mentioning the new lists that came out with Scars of Mirrodin. Having access to 8 4/4s on the cheap is sure to make the deck stronger.
-Alex
*consistent
Is it this Aaron Foysyth http://www.tubesfan.com/watch/ed-little-chris-and-aaron-forsyth-playing-... ? Yeah, he plays very well. I'd love to be as good as he is and many other players mentioned above.
RE badmalloc: The event convered is a little dated, usually I mention which time period was covered in an article but I guess I forgot to in this one, sorry about that.
RE Lythand: Always welcome brother.
RE Jarunik: it's funny how important simple things can be sometimes. It was nice to get my pack several hours earlier than I would otherwise have. So tx again.
RE responses: I'm glad I put the question in there, there has been a lot of good discussion here.
X-
Sorry to hear that Flippers,
I can identify with feeling overwhelmed with a PRE. I'm probably going to have to find a way to cut down on some of the time I spend on the Heirloom events myself. It's great that you have the replacement already set up to keep continuity. I'm sure the break from the grind of it will be liberating to a great extent.
The only constant in life is change, and that's not always a bad thing.
X-
Really well done article,
I've taken a pass on pauper for quite some time but for the new or even moderately experienced player this is a really nice analysis and summary of the better decks in pauper.
Great graphics, great presentation. Might I suggest as a small note perhaps the creative use of space. Maybe when you have some of your breaks they could be separated out by some more white page in between some of the elements.
X-
...the results are from week two of season one.
Cheers for mentioning me to click a randomizing button and generating a fun pool with it. :) LOL
Well Fellas,
I'll have to agree to disagree on twisted image. I just won another 8-4 in a poison deck that featured two of them and they were house as always (few examples - his riddlesmith with lifestaff blocked cystbearer on my t4 twice and died to image and held bearer both times - this loss of tempo is devastating and allowing me to have continued pressure is bad news as well, killed a wall of tanglecord, and made a molder beast a 3/9).
Re: The Trigon/Accorder's Shield comment.
It doesn't matter if it's power or toughness, there are situations where you'd rather have trigon be an accorder's shield and vice versa. That was my case and point with those cards in relation to image.
Absolutely true though those goblin decks are not the threat most people bring when they bring goblins. They bring the I kill you on turn 4-5 if you don't plop a moat down and even then its a matter of time before I top deck the bolt that kills you.
I have a second account on MTGO. I give the other account the deck I want to test against and play against myself.
LE
Great logic and read. Quite eye-opening to see the numbers up front/unbias. Try out pauper - at most it'll cost ya 30 tix to be able to build every deck, and then your literally set for life. Great competition and weekly ways to fit the urge to compete.
I hope someone at wizard$ got REALLY nervous at reading this :)
Goblins don't even need to attack to win. Siege-Gang Commander, Lightning Crafter, Goblin Sharpshooter, and Murderous Redcap can take care of that. Of course without Moat, Goblin players don't need to think that far ahead...
Thanks for the Honors. That is awesome.
Lord Erman, if I may ask, how do you playtest? Just curious because you mentioned, "I played countless many test matches against every possible deck type and finally ended up with this list". I guess you have somebody to play a bunch of heirloom matches against?
Xaos, I'm confused about the week 2 results from the league. Aren't we still in week 1??
How so? It kept (to some degree) the aggro landed tribes in check. Without Moat Gobs/Elves/Soldiers are too fast to really be stopped (more Gobs and Elves than the others.) I do not see how Moat was broken in any shape or form. Even red can bring removal in the form of artifacts. (Disk, Stone, Ratchet, Explosives, etc.)
I will have to make a mental note when drawing SS Elder, and see if I would rather have a Devastating Summons. There are still several concrete examples in my mind where SS Elder is just nice to have as a first turn Goblin, giving you 10 Goblin spells you can cast on Turn 1 (4 Rebirth 4 GG and 2 SS Elder).
I am sloooooowly weaning myself off Moxen. Eventually I'll cut 'em all.
Thanks for reading guys.
P.S.
On a side note, I find it extremely sad that WOTC decided to make the best Red hosers Red spells: Arc Trail and Pyroclasm. All the other decks can play around Arc Trail a lot easier than us, i.e. Boros, WW Quest, and B/R Vamps.
On another side note, I did not encounter any WW in my tournaments this week, but I adjusted the SB to shore up that match up even more: 3 Shatter 2 Brittle Effigy 2 Perilous Myr and 4 Chimeric Mass (oh and Searing Blaze). The 3 Shatters provide good outs to Quest, as I agree, a Turn 1 Quest into Turn 3 AA is just tough to race. Staying untapped and having Shatter really helps. And you have 8 answers to a possible 4 Firewalkers, so I feel like that problem is solved. WIthout AA, their guys just die to burn and Koth like you said.