While the decks are similar, there is one glaring difference.
Vintage has Ancestral Recall to get you back back up to 7 cards... fast. Classic doesn't. This is a monumental obstacle to overcome when you are talking about a land drop that is costing you coloured mana in a format that has no moxen.
Another great article. Thanks for putting time into creating these SOM block articles. It has been enjoyable reading about your experiences with the block. I'm sad to hear you will be moving on to a different topic, as I play SOM exclusively and no one else seems to write about the shifts in the block.
As a side note, I don't see the recorded game you mentioned in your article.
I played only in 2mans and played non stop for almost a month now. I did, however, stop playing the format until the next set comes out because I have to (and I want to) spend more time playing other formats as well.
Most probably I will once again return to the 2mans right after the next set comes out (too bad the bad guys won again by the way :(. New Phyrexia...).
I use similar techniques to the ones discussed in the article. For the most part I agree with TRG, but I do have to quibble on one point. I don't think that players should completely avoid the tournament practice room. What the TP room is good for is learning to play your deck without risk. You won't learn much about specific matchups or the metagame in general, but you will uncover some of the subtle synergies in your deck that you might not have initially noticed (especially if you are netdecking) and can get some valuable insight into how your deck plays out in a general sense. This advice is more true for decks that are less interactive and less true for decks that are more interactive. So if you are playing a combo deck that really doesn't care about what your opponent is doing, and most of your decisions have to do with resource management, TP can be invaluable experience. If your deck is completely reactive and relies entirely on matchup knowledge for success, then TP will be less helpful. Most decks are somewhere in between.
I think that this kind of experience can be especially helpful for mostly-limited players who might otherwise miss a lot of the basics of constructed play. You don't want to be putting tickets on the line if you are basically guaranteed to make a bunch of very basic play errors that could be ironed out by playing 10-20 matches in TP.
But absolutely do not think that you are awesome because you won 10 matches in a row in TP, and expect your win % to go down when you step into the "real world".
No problem. I really enjoyed that article, even if I was maybe accused of being sharkish in the format. Fortuantely, my cruel reign of Goblin terror was brought to an end ;)
I think I should just reiterate that Time Sieve isn't legal in Heirloom anymore to avoid confusion. My recommendation of Steel Hellkite over Thopter Assembly was more general aimed at those looking for big creatures without colour-commitments in Heirloom. Though I agree with everything you say about the Time Sieve deck. Thopter Assembly + Time Sieve certainly isn't a win condition in itself, but I imagine infinite turns is a good amount of time to find one.
I have to say I am yet to play with Galvanoth but it definitely has a very high cool factor. Sure you can do some awesome things with it, sadly we don't get enablers quite as sweet as Brainstorm. Actually I'm not sure if there is a card that allows you to put cards from your hand on top of your library in Heirloom, which would be my primary concern. But I sure Ponder, Telling Time and Scry cards could do a reasonable job as enablers.
I apologise for spoiling the fun there. It is impressive though how a couple of Groundswells can just end the game. Taunting Elf seemed like a nice addition to the deck too. Not something I'd thought of myself.
A really great Rogue Play as always. I was really interested in getting involved in playing SOM Block and I'm sure this article will help me a ton if I decide to give it a try.
Interesting how the metagame has shifted so much since Mirrodin Beseiged came out.
Hey!
Glad to hear that new players such as yourself are trying out the format. Discard and Merfolk are certainly powerful decks. hg20010 played a Discard deck to the Top 4 last week, which I played against in Round 3 and the Top 4 with my Grixis Control deck. I lost 0-2 in the first match but managed to steal out a 2-1 victory in the Top 4 match. I certainly don't get in as many practice games as I'd like (usually none actually) so I'm sure I'd be up for a game if you see around on MTGO.
Glad you enjoy the articles and the videos. I'm not the best player but I do try my best to explain what my thoughts are, which hopefully has some value.
Hi just started playing this format. Made myself a discard deck and played with another new player who made a really good all foil merfolk deck. I think we tested for 3 matches and it was pretty split though I think he got me a bit with Dodecapod. I hope I can play at the next tournament and try my theories out on a real gauntlet. These articles are really good, I enjoy the videos with commentary and the thinking that you put into things.
Ofc there are but finding one and one that beats the field is the hard part. That is partly why Jund is suited well for the format(aside access to every gold card that is good).
I agree that Choking Fumes is quite worthy of consideration in the format.
Considering as successful as Rage Forger fueled warriors/elementals has been in the past, as a well timed Chocking Fumes can really turn that match up around, turning off Rage Forger's ability by removing the +1/+1 counters on those creatures, and probably leading to bad blocks, and then that has effective splash damage against White Weenie Quest/Caw Blade inspired decks, effectively chews up some token based strategies- for instance, the Goblin Assault/Shared Animosity decks basically get wrathed.
Hey Olaw thanks for the mention. The time sieve thopter assembly deck is a bit disappointing because as you said the tokens don't do anything other than act as fuel for the sieve. But it can give you infinite turns if you have enough mana to keep casting Thopter Assembly every turn. What is needed is an alternative win condition (such as any type of creature other than Thopter which is why Thopter tribal doesn't work so well. :D) Steel Hellkite is certainly a beast and can even serve as that alternative win con. Also of interest in such a deck might be Spine of Ish Sah.
Galvanoth (one of my favorite red cards from recent sets) is great fun if you can get the trigger off. I built a number of variations using grixis and jund to set up hoser spells. I found brainstorm to be a great enabler for that guy. Unfortunately it is a beast so it's applicability in Tribal Wars is seriously hindered but as you point out there might be some form of the deck buildable in Heirloom. Sadly that leaves out Brainstorm and many other decent enablers (Sensei's Divining Top for example.)
While the decks are similar, there is one glaring difference.
Vintage has Ancestral Recall to get you back back up to 7 cards... fast. Classic doesn't. This is a monumental obstacle to overcome when you are talking about a land drop that is costing you coloured mana in a format that has no moxen.
Another great article. Thanks for putting time into creating these SOM block articles. It has been enjoyable reading about your experiences with the block. I'm sad to hear you will be moving on to a different topic, as I play SOM exclusively and no one else seems to write about the shifts in the block.
As a side note, I don't see the recorded game you mentioned in your article.
Keep up the good work!
I played only in 2mans and played non stop for almost a month now. I did, however, stop playing the format until the next set comes out because I have to (and I want to) spend more time playing other formats as well.
Most probably I will once again return to the 2mans right after the next set comes out (too bad the bad guys won again by the way :(. New Phyrexia...).
LE
Dream Cache for sure. Foresee while not putting cards from your hand does allow you to rearrange nicely as does the 4 cost 3xscry guy.
I use similar techniques to the ones discussed in the article. For the most part I agree with TRG, but I do have to quibble on one point. I don't think that players should completely avoid the tournament practice room. What the TP room is good for is learning to play your deck without risk. You won't learn much about specific matchups or the metagame in general, but you will uncover some of the subtle synergies in your deck that you might not have initially noticed (especially if you are netdecking) and can get some valuable insight into how your deck plays out in a general sense. This advice is more true for decks that are less interactive and less true for decks that are more interactive. So if you are playing a combo deck that really doesn't care about what your opponent is doing, and most of your decisions have to do with resource management, TP can be invaluable experience. If your deck is completely reactive and relies entirely on matchup knowledge for success, then TP will be less helpful. Most decks are somewhere in between.
I think that this kind of experience can be especially helpful for mostly-limited players who might otherwise miss a lot of the basics of constructed play. You don't want to be putting tickets on the line if you are basically guaranteed to make a bunch of very basic play errors that could be ironed out by playing 10-20 matches in TP.
But absolutely do not think that you are awesome because you won 10 matches in a row in TP, and expect your win % to go down when you step into the "real world".
Do you play primarily in the 2-mans or Daily events? I love the block talk and I hope you keep playing it.
it reminds a lot of a format my clan plays called clone magic in the fact that all the cards allowed are
under $.25
No problem. I really enjoyed that article, even if I was maybe accused of being sharkish in the format. Fortuantely, my cruel reign of Goblin terror was brought to an end ;)
I think I should just reiterate that Time Sieve isn't legal in Heirloom anymore to avoid confusion. My recommendation of Steel Hellkite over Thopter Assembly was more general aimed at those looking for big creatures without colour-commitments in Heirloom. Though I agree with everything you say about the Time Sieve deck. Thopter Assembly + Time Sieve certainly isn't a win condition in itself, but I imagine infinite turns is a good amount of time to find one.
I have to say I am yet to play with Galvanoth but it definitely has a very high cool factor. Sure you can do some awesome things with it, sadly we don't get enablers quite as sweet as Brainstorm. Actually I'm not sure if there is a card that allows you to put cards from your hand on top of your library in Heirloom, which would be my primary concern. But I sure Ponder, Telling Time and Scry cards could do a reasonable job as enablers.
I apologise for spoiling the fun there. It is impressive though how a couple of Groundswells can just end the game. Taunting Elf seemed like a nice addition to the deck too. Not something I'd thought of myself.
A really great Rogue Play as always. I was really interested in getting involved in playing SOM Block and I'm sure this article will help me a ton if I decide to give it a try.
Interesting how the metagame has shifted so much since Mirrodin Beseiged came out.
Hey!
Glad to hear that new players such as yourself are trying out the format. Discard and Merfolk are certainly powerful decks. hg20010 played a Discard deck to the Top 4 last week, which I played against in Round 3 and the Top 4 with my Grixis Control deck. I lost 0-2 in the first match but managed to steal out a 2-1 victory in the Top 4 match. I certainly don't get in as many practice games as I'd like (usually none actually) so I'm sure I'd be up for a game if you see around on MTGO.
Glad you enjoy the articles and the videos. I'm not the best player but I do try my best to explain what my thoughts are, which hopefully has some value.
Hope to see you at the next Heirloom PRE!
Hi just started playing this format. Made myself a discard deck and played with another new player who made a really good all foil merfolk deck. I think we tested for 3 matches and it was pretty split though I think he got me a bit with Dodecapod. I hope I can play at the next tournament and try my theories out on a real gauntlet. These articles are really good, I enjoy the videos with commentary and the thinking that you put into things.
Ofc there are but finding one and one that beats the field is the hard part. That is partly why Jund is suited well for the format(aside access to every gold card that is good).
And yet I bet there are several decks that just win against 'so tight Jund'. Haven't come up with them yet but I bet they are out there.
I agree that Choking Fumes is quite worthy of consideration in the format.
Considering as successful as Rage Forger fueled warriors/elementals has been in the past, as a well timed Chocking Fumes can really turn that match up around, turning off Rage Forger's ability by removing the +1/+1 counters on those creatures, and probably leading to bad blocks, and then that has effective splash damage against White Weenie Quest/Caw Blade inspired decks, effectively chews up some token based strategies- for instance, the Goblin Assault/Shared Animosity decks basically get wrathed.
Thanks
Too bad for the rest of the format and your lack of reading, it gets Pure//Simple+Pulse.
Thanks for another nice recap, and for the interesting analisys of Infect and MBS :)
Hey Olaw thanks for the mention. The time sieve thopter assembly deck is a bit disappointing because as you said the tokens don't do anything other than act as fuel for the sieve. But it can give you infinite turns if you have enough mana to keep casting Thopter Assembly every turn. What is needed is an alternative win condition (such as any type of creature other than Thopter which is why Thopter tribal doesn't work so well. :D) Steel Hellkite is certainly a beast and can even serve as that alternative win con. Also of interest in such a deck might be Spine of Ish Sah.
Galvanoth (one of my favorite red cards from recent sets) is great fun if you can get the trigger off. I built a number of variations using grixis and jund to set up hoser spells. I found brainstorm to be a great enabler for that guy. Unfortunately it is a beast so it's applicability in Tribal Wars is seriously hindered but as you point out there might be some form of the deck buildable in Heirloom. Sadly that leaves out Brainstorm and many other decent enablers (Sensei's Divining Top for example.)
Thanks Chris.
Ah, it appears you are correct. I thought I'd checked, but I must not have done. Poor show from me. My apologies.
Another great article olaw :)
I like the Sunblast Blink list but I thought Momentary Blink was not legal in Heirloom?
Too bad for jund that Vindicate is Black an White
great read again!
My "fun" Infect deck turned out to be no fun in our last event....
Love the series, being broke and new to MTGO online advice on how to avoid spending actual money (that I really, really don't have) in invaluable.
I read all your old articles and look forward to the new ones. Thanks a lot.
I like the way you explained all this things. I find very interesting your way of expressing and I understood everything. Thanks for your advices.