I don't think they want CB/Top in the meta, but as you noted, it doesn't help with the real problem control has, which is 12-post.
The biggest bane of the deck, and the reason it fell out of favor is due to a 4-of played in almost all 12-post decks, Green Sun's Zenith. For those that don't know, this allows you to fetch creatures to blow up Counterbalance with any arbitrarily large Zenith, since most of the spells in these decks are 1-2 CMC. The deck is also a lot worse without the legacy support cards of Enlightened Tutor and Brainstorm, but that's fairly irrelevant.
This would likely create a more traditional legacy meta of CB/Top vs Aether Vial, but we'll never see it happen. Interestingly the 12-post legacy deck was actually built as an answer to CB/Top if I remember correctly, or at least built for that metagame. The loss of Crop Rotation and Tabernacle doesn't seem to have hurt it too much.
My local league is a no proxy league. One guy has the money to buy the stuff. I no longer play in this league. I want to cast my spells, not look at his tundras. I want to game not sit around due to mana screw.
Of course only 3 people showed up yesterday so maybe I am not the only one :D
Amen about the EDH leagues. I'm sure you've been involved in my various FB rants on the subject. I want to play good Magic when I play EDH. I don't want to steam roll you because I can invest in a Tundra and you have to use a Coastal Tower. I'm all for letting as many mana-fixing proxies as you want. I want to play against relevant spells, not winning because you got screwed over by something arbitrary as color-screw.
Love the content (of course I do its Classic!) but I really really love the presentation and appreciate the time required to sculpt something as smooth and slick as this! - Nice Job Sir.
I find it a little satisfying that the points I made months ago are pretty much reiterated in this show...specifically the reprinting of staple Classic cards(FOW mentioned here) would generate more Classic players
There are a few problems with that, but the first is that one of my primary goals with these articles is reaching new players and creating interest in the format. Those goals would never be realized at CQ. Also, PureMTGO is kind enough to offer Event Tickets (well, credits) for this article. I put those tickets towards League prize support. I would be crazy to ask Mike to cough up prize support for my League considering he already spends time and money keeping CQ alive. =)
Missing a deck list? I don't think so. There are 38 deck lists and 38 players. Unless I made some mistake, which is entirely possible. =) Can you be more specific?
Thanks to you and everyone else for the kind words! =D
I thought this was really well done. Maybe you should talk to danger and just put the content up on CQ in his articles section? You also seem to be missing one of the decklists. Again, really nice job overall.
I don't really play casual (or casual formats), but one thing Modern seems to have done is push sac-land-friendly duals out of reach for budget inclined players.
I saw it, but thought it was like the last one with Karn, Masticore and Spa of Body and Mind.
And I'm sorry for controversy on the page, like I said, I just wanted to think of a new idea. And btw, all the cards would be shuffles together, so nobody would get what they put in, you put in 45 cards and they, along with the other people's 45 cards are all shuffled together and then placed randomly into 15 card groups and passed around as packs. But it was just an idea. I don't like the boring idea of everyone playing the same deck over and over and seeing who gets the better opening hand.
And Apaulogy, I really don't need to hear your comments. Especially from someone who plays matches he then records and edits with a program as good as iMovie, and has miserable music playing over it. It's downright unwatchable. And not to mention this is also the same guy who talks about other people's recordings. I mean you need to stop being so critical of everyone except yourself, all the while your articles on this site are the most unwatchable. Maybe if I was rolling on E and had the lights off, glow sticks, and a strobe light while the video starts, it would be almost watchable. "Oh look at me, I'm Apaulology and I can make a fade to black and then fade to white in between games of a match. That makes me better than you, I am the good lord Jesus Christ". Seriously bud, at least what I brought up was original, can you say the same?
Why would they visit their (basically) best set again? I mean, with 10 2-color combos who all have their supporters and really weren't all fleshed out that well, why would they want to go back and flesh it out along with selling DI packs (maybe reversing the color-combos this time roughly? UB can stay p1 since it's the best and we need all the Wateries we can get but..)? Seems like a horrible idea to me! :)
You guys stepped it up this week. Good job! Really tight show with tons of good content!
I'm getting wrecked in the Classic League. I came prepared for creature decks and haven't faced one yet. It's been all blue control. I donated Foil Wood Elementals as a booby prize to the last place player, and it looks like I might be getting them back!
How about Goblins as future secret tech? My clannies and I were talking about it a few months ago, and now might be a better time. I've seen someone trying it out in TP. We've got Recruiter in Classic.
Awesome, guys! New format... YAY! Andy's back... YAY!
Hmm, I just wanted to note that the Clique-Tutor interaction is only good if they don't immediately play what they tutored for. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do not get priority between the Demonic Tutor resolution and their next spell. Of course, if they play something else, like Dark Ritual or LED, you're good.
Like the new format, obviously. You all seemed much more engaged with the subject matter and you had good energy this week. I like how Andy plays Modern and Zach loves Legacy: sets up a healthy divergence of perspectives. I would have never thought of selling Legacy staples because of their loss of demand. o.O Good notion even if it is going to be a slow realization. Card prices tend to go up much faster than they ever come down... surely that must be one of Newton's laws. ;)
Shameless self-promotion: anyone interested in tons of Classic decks and the Classic League, check out the latest article:
Heh, I'm biased of course, but I would say there has never been a better time to get into Classic. The time investment to learn the format is relatively low considering the fact that most of the same deck types are evergreen competitive. That doesn't mean to say that there is A) no innovation or B) deck lists stay 100% intact; rather, there are main pillar archetypes that have an unchangeable core and once you learn those and how they interact within the format, you're basically set for the long term.
I would actually like to play some Classic, just seems like a bad time right now. People (including me) are pre-occupied with Modern and Innistrad. But thanks for the articles, and especially the deck lists.
Sure, but if you can play Countertop, you can run 4 paths, and call it good vs most creature decks. Then you work on building to beat 12post.
I don't think they want CB/Top in the meta, but as you noted, it doesn't help with the real problem control has, which is 12-post.
The biggest bane of the deck, and the reason it fell out of favor is due to a 4-of played in almost all 12-post decks, Green Sun's Zenith. For those that don't know, this allows you to fetch creatures to blow up Counterbalance with any arbitrarily large Zenith, since most of the spells in these decks are 1-2 CMC. The deck is also a lot worse without the legacy support cards of Enlightened Tutor and Brainstorm, but that's fairly irrelevant.
This would likely create a more traditional legacy meta of CB/Top vs Aether Vial, but we'll never see it happen. Interestingly the 12-post legacy deck was actually built as an answer to CB/Top if I remember correctly, or at least built for that metagame. The loss of Crop Rotation and Tabernacle doesn't seem to have hurt it too much.
You're probably right and it likely wouldn't happen because of that, but I can dream right :)
I would agree with unbanninb top if it didnt have the undesirable effect of slowing rounds to a crawl...
I would agree with unbanninb top if it didnt have the undesirable effect of slowing rounds to a crawl...
My local league is a no proxy league. One guy has the money to buy the stuff. I no longer play in this league. I want to cast my spells, not look at his tundras. I want to game not sit around due to mana screw.
Of course only 3 people showed up yesterday so maybe I am not the only one :D
Amen about the EDH leagues. I'm sure you've been involved in my various FB rants on the subject. I want to play good Magic when I play EDH. I don't want to steam roll you because I can invest in a Tundra and you have to use a Coastal Tower. I'm all for letting as many mana-fixing proxies as you want. I want to play against relevant spells, not winning because you got screwed over by something arbitrary as color-screw.
Love the content (of course I do its Classic!) but I really really love the presentation and appreciate the time required to sculpt something as smooth and slick as this! - Nice Job Sir.
Do you still like this deck in the Pauper meta today Delux?
I find it a little satisfying that the points I made months ago are pretty much reiterated in this show...specifically the reprinting of staple Classic cards(FOW mentioned here) would generate more Classic players
There are a few problems with that, but the first is that one of my primary goals with these articles is reaching new players and creating interest in the format. Those goals would never be realized at CQ. Also, PureMTGO is kind enough to offer Event Tickets (well, credits) for this article. I put those tickets towards League prize support. I would be crazy to ask Mike to cough up prize support for my League considering he already spends time and money keeping CQ alive. =)
Missing a deck list? I don't think so. There are 38 deck lists and 38 players. Unless I made some mistake, which is entirely possible. =) Can you be more specific?
Thanks to you and everyone else for the kind words! =D
I thought this was really well done. Maybe you should talk to danger and just put the content up on CQ in his articles section? You also seem to be missing one of the decklists. Again, really nice job overall.
I don't really play casual (or casual formats), but one thing Modern seems to have done is push sac-land-friendly duals out of reach for budget inclined players.
sorry for ending your day early, we had a well fought battle and it was a good day, hope to see you at some more pdc events in the future :D
I appreciate the honesty and feedback and take the post as a compliment.
Thank you, Alternate.
Perfect ;-)
Hey - enough name calling and criticism of each other.
In my articles, I'm the only one who can get criticism.
Nuf said?
K
I saw it, but thought it was like the last one with Karn, Masticore and Spa of Body and Mind.
And I'm sorry for controversy on the page, like I said, I just wanted to think of a new idea. And btw, all the cards would be shuffles together, so nobody would get what they put in, you put in 45 cards and they, along with the other people's 45 cards are all shuffled together and then placed randomly into 15 card groups and passed around as packs. But it was just an idea. I don't like the boring idea of everyone playing the same deck over and over and seeing who gets the better opening hand.
And Apaulogy, I really don't need to hear your comments. Especially from someone who plays matches he then records and edits with a program as good as iMovie, and has miserable music playing over it. It's downright unwatchable. And not to mention this is also the same guy who talks about other people's recordings. I mean you need to stop being so critical of everyone except yourself, all the while your articles on this site are the most unwatchable. Maybe if I was rolling on E and had the lights off, glow sticks, and a strobe light while the video starts, it would be almost watchable. "Oh look at me, I'm Apaulology and I can make a fade to black and then fade to white in between games of a match. That makes me better than you, I am the good lord Jesus Christ". Seriously bud, at least what I brought up was original, can you say the same?
Also after a long day of deliberation, anthamancer seems like a good choice too.
feels like people have forgotten of how powerfull that card can be.
Can't thank you enough for the league and the bigtime effort MMogg. You are a stud and the classic community owes you one!
The article is super crisp and well put-together as well.
Big props,
Zach
Why would they visit their (basically) best set again? I mean, with 10 2-color combos who all have their supporters and really weren't all fleshed out that well, why would they want to go back and flesh it out along with selling DI packs (maybe reversing the color-combos this time roughly? UB can stay p1 since it's the best and we need all the Wateries we can get but..)? Seems like a horrible idea to me! :)
You guys stepped it up this week. Good job! Really tight show with tons of good content!
I'm getting wrecked in the Classic League. I came prepared for creature decks and haven't faced one yet. It's been all blue control. I donated Foil Wood Elementals as a booby prize to the last place player, and it looks like I might be getting them back!
How about Goblins as future secret tech? My clannies and I were talking about it a few months ago, and now might be a better time. I've seen someone trying it out in TP. We've got Recruiter in Classic.
Awesome, guys! New format... YAY! Andy's back... YAY!
Hmm, I just wanted to note that the Clique-Tutor interaction is only good if they don't immediately play what they tutored for. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do not get priority between the Demonic Tutor resolution and their next spell. Of course, if they play something else, like Dark Ritual or LED, you're good.
Like the new format, obviously. You all seemed much more engaged with the subject matter and you had good energy this week. I like how Andy plays Modern and Zach loves Legacy: sets up a healthy divergence of perspectives. I would have never thought of selling Legacy staples because of their loss of demand. o.O Good notion even if it is going to be a slow realization. Card prices tend to go up much faster than they ever come down... surely that must be one of Newton's laws. ;)
Shameless self-promotion: anyone interested in tons of Classic decks and the Classic League, check out the latest article:
http://puremtgo.com/articles/classic-league-season-2-hook
Heh, I'm biased of course, but I would say there has never been a better time to get into Classic. The time investment to learn the format is relatively low considering the fact that most of the same deck types are evergreen competitive. That doesn't mean to say that there is A) no innovation or B) deck lists stay 100% intact; rather, there are main pillar archetypes that have an unchangeable core and once you learn those and how they interact within the format, you're basically set for the long term.
Beware, though, the power level is addictive. =)
I would actually like to play some Classic, just seems like a bad time right now. People (including me) are pre-occupied with Modern and Innistrad. But thanks for the articles, and especially the deck lists.