Magic's growth has just finally reached the point where we could see one tournament series of the size of Star City Games' open series run for a profit, with considerably lower total prizes than Wizards hands out (since it's from their marketing budget). In the one country that has far more Magic players than any other. I doubt there's enough market to support two for-profit tournament series of that size, but our market can clearly currently support one.
Don't let that fool you into thinking there's enough market in countries like Brazil to support any significant size for-profit tournament series. FNMs, sure. Something like SCG? No way. Dig up the numbers and do the math, if you don't believe me. It's a much smaller market than the USA, as are most countries. Maybe Japan could support a tournament series if it were smaller than SCG. Maybe Europe as a whole if enough people were willing to travel around for it, certainly on one European nation alone.
If sales of Magic ever start to decline too much, even the SCG Opens might not remain viable. I hope that never happens - but negative changes to organized play makes things more difficult for Star City. Part of the reason they could even get started is because the existence of the Pro Tour adds some appeal to their series. "If I do well enough at SCG, I could try to get on the Pro Tour as well". Losing that dream can't be good for SCG's attendance either.
Saturday will be busier, and you will have more to see. Sunday the Top 8 may be sequestered, and a lot of the activity dies down. Saturday will be longer, and more interesting.
Of course, side events run all weekend, so you will have plenty of opportunities to play, if you want to.
Pete. As someone who has attended World's in the past, which day would you recommend for someone to go? Due to Veteran's Day, and being a teacher, I have any of the 4 days to choose from. I'm really going for the drafting and to get Chapin to sign my copy of his book.
I should mention that I live an hour away so there is no real planning needed for except deciding which of the four days to go.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but Thwart is a nice late counter spell.
And if I'm right, Foil, which is discard an Island + any other card seems like it would be a nice option for those who don't have $400.
I would just think that Classic would be going up since there are no more Classic set drafts like that ME4.
Btw, if they are going to bring back Kobalds for ME, then they should bring them back a ton. I have all the legends Kobolds, and would play with paper again if they brought back the insane red 0 mana creatures. That + Sac a creature get 3 mana + Play 4 more kobalds + ??? = Profits!
PRJ, you make a relatively level-headed argument, but there's a serious flaw in it: you mistake "playing a lot" for "name recognition" among casual fans.
Let's start with examples from other competitions: would you prefer the US Open in tennis or golf (both of which are open-qualifying events with reserved spots, similar to PTs) to make the majority of invites go to people who play every weekend on the Nationwide Tour or smaller circuits, or should they go to the best players in the world regardless of play? That's not even rhetorical - both choose skill.
Obviously Wizards has the additional constraint of ROI on their marketing dollar. But that's pretty easy to address, as well -
*Casual fans of the Tour - the ones whose dollars you are attracting - are likely not the people following the SCG tournaments, right? So why favor a Bertoncini over a Reitzl, whose past victories on large stages carry a cachet that actually reaches the lowest level of play?
*The tantalizing promise of making the PT will be just pisspounded when the casual fan learns he has to barnstorm against GerryT all year, at a net loss, to make one of now THREE PTs - the GP Dream (one of the easier ways to make a non-PTQ appearance, whether by top-16 or gaining enough Elo points) is dead, and the FNM Dream will be too.
*You mistake your own view as spectator (a VERY informed one at that) for the Common Man's view from the street. You know these guys who play every week - who the hell else does? Obv SCG isn't making a killing on the Series, since they've all but eliminated their Player's Club too (nice sleeves, seriously) - is the viewership even significant?
It's a simple cost-cutting measure - the intent was never to "improve" the product. The intent was to choke it as little as possible under their new budget.
I'll try to go more in-depth later, but there's one glaring thing here: you criminally underrate Silent Departure. In this format, it's absolutely unreal. In your decks, it would have been amazing.
Also, my inclination is that Geistflame is better early than Into the Maw - like, I'd rather have the first Geistflame than the first Maw, but I can see that changing later.
All right, I have built a version incorporating many of these ideas and will give it a try.
I already had a lot of artifact accel. I also had the two graveyard sculptors you mentioned, and went further moratorium stone and stonecloaker.
I added in an indestructible package, and jammed in a bunch of sweepers. Also added a fair number of tutors.
I still can't bring my self to run the mass discard. I did slide in Mind Slash though. It gives me a more targeted way to attack hands and adds to the creature sacrifice sub theme that I like.
This new version of the deck feels much more like something I would normally play. It has a specific game plan and a focused strategy which I appreciate. Unfocused good stuff decks do tend to bore me. I am not a huge fan of being this tutor heavy, but will give it a try.
That is a deal. I mean, laugh all you want about how dredge (real dredge) kills on turns 1-4 and block dredge typically has 1-2 guys in play by turn 4.
I mean, I like Odyssey as much as the next masochist, but Dredge is an archetype at this point across basically every format. Zendikar has a GY-abusing deck, so did Zendikar/Alara block, so does Vintage... Dredge has joined the names of archetypes much the way the Zoo has become the "cheap big dudes backed up with spells" archetype, RDW is the red deck (except for Burn I guess), and Storm is basically everyone combo deck that runs a storm finisher. It may be a bit dumb, but it just is.
I do support UGDTPCFYDIYGAS as the deck name if you really hate dredge though.
I still don't think it should be called Dredge but I like your name way better. Hence force I'm going to refer to it as
"UG Deck That Puts Cards From Your Deck Into Your Graveyard And Stuff"
It's not the mechanics that give me the Madness vibe, it's the tempo the deck seems to have. Piloting it brings me back to Odyssey block for some reason...
It was REALLY weird to me how they basically ignored the fact that it seemed like Hasbro mandated cutting costs and they just spun it like it was all positive. Hasbro needs to pull their heads out. You cannot cut MTG costs and hurt a very profitable product to prop up your other crappy products like they seem determined to do.
Dredge is by far a better name than madness. I could almost see "graveyard combo" but even without the actual dredge combo, you KNOW what a dredge deck is doing. Why would you call it Madness when it has 0 madness cards and doesn't even have cards that play like madness (a.e. no discard for an effect spells) compared to the fact that it has a ton of "put cards from your deck into your GY..." stuff.
Massacre Wurm really loves those Zombies tokens. Great end story there. As far as buying in is concerned it really is tricky. Whilst you are busy figuring out what is going to be hot/important to get so is everyone else. Sure some people will sell out while the prices are high, in theory deflating them, but the really good cards might not drop much at all. It is hard to predict exactly where the low point in that arc will be. (Especially for non-mathematicians.)
by the Worlds tourney...smaller, easier on Operating costs, "Clash of the Titans" feel....
But I just hope the larger MTG suppliers worldwide are brainstorming on how to make their own business profit from this change. Because if I owned a store in Brazil or wherever, I would worry about the future of my business and maybe try to create a profitable tourney circuit. It certainly seems reasonable...
Basically, my point is, we don't need Wizards to have tourneys with good payouts.
that by making this change they are moving in the direction of privatizing the MTG tournament circuit, right? Just like everything else in a capitalist system (for more reference see Social Security, Medicaid, Corporate Prisons, Corporate Schools, etc ad infinitum)
The SCG Opens are evidence that tournament magic can thrive without WotC support. Well, WotC support for these costs money. They are trying to cut costs to make things more profitable, as evidenced by the end of the Player Reward program. I think they have just come to a point where they realize that they can continue to control supply without having to pay "winners" out of their own pockets.
If you owned a business that was presented with data to support this claim, you would feel the same way and make the same decision (at least in the greed-driven world I live in).
I understand that you are from Brazil, and that competitive MTG was just starting to flourish there. This change certainly sucks from the perspective of Nationals "ending", but who is to say that some private tournament organizer from Sao Paulo won't pick up the pieces and get something going there??
I truly feel bad for foreign country pros in this change. I just hope that someone realizes that there are profits to be made and does continue some kind of tournament circuit in Brazil, the Czech Republic, Russia, etc....There are good competitive MTG players from those countries. But if anyone expected that WotC and their parent company Hasbro to continue to let people ride "the gravy train", then you were setting yourself up for disappointment.
Yes this was the crux for me to. I am not interested in playing in Nationals (ever) but over the years I have truly enjoyed reading about the various things that happened at the national events across the globe. Now that seems to be irrelevant. But what if someone comes along and makes them relevant again? It is not impossible.
good vids
Magic's growth has just finally reached the point where we could see one tournament series of the size of Star City Games' open series run for a profit, with considerably lower total prizes than Wizards hands out (since it's from their marketing budget). In the one country that has far more Magic players than any other. I doubt there's enough market to support two for-profit tournament series of that size, but our market can clearly currently support one.
Don't let that fool you into thinking there's enough market in countries like Brazil to support any significant size for-profit tournament series. FNMs, sure. Something like SCG? No way. Dig up the numbers and do the math, if you don't believe me. It's a much smaller market than the USA, as are most countries. Maybe Japan could support a tournament series if it were smaller than SCG. Maybe Europe as a whole if enough people were willing to travel around for it, certainly on one European nation alone.
If sales of Magic ever start to decline too much, even the SCG Opens might not remain viable. I hope that never happens - but negative changes to organized play makes things more difficult for Star City. Part of the reason they could even get started is because the existence of the Pro Tour adds some appeal to their series. "If I do well enough at SCG, I could try to get on the Pro Tour as well". Losing that dream can't be good for SCG's attendance either.
Saturday will be busier, and you will have more to see. Sunday the Top 8 may be sequestered, and a lot of the activity dies down. Saturday will be longer, and more interesting.
Of course, side events run all weekend, so you will have plenty of opportunities to play, if you want to.
I actually just checked and I was a week early. So change your recommendation to just Saturday/Sunday.
Thanks
wise words two hands. it is sad that some folks still think that wizards is doing that for players.
Pete. As someone who has attended World's in the past, which day would you recommend for someone to go? Due to Veteran's Day, and being a teacher, I have any of the 4 days to choose from. I'm really going for the drafting and to get Chapin to sign my copy of his book.
I should mention that I live an hour away so there is no real planning needed for except deciding which of the four days to go.
Thanks! And I will look for you to say hi.
Don
I'm not saying you are wrong, but Thwart is a nice late counter spell.
And if I'm right, Foil, which is discard an Island + any other card seems like it would be a nice option for those who don't have $400.
I would just think that Classic would be going up since there are no more Classic set drafts like that ME4.
Btw, if they are going to bring back Kobalds for ME, then they should bring them back a ton. I have all the legends Kobolds, and would play with paper again if they brought back the insane red 0 mana creatures. That + Sac a creature get 3 mana + Play 4 more kobalds + ??? = Profits!
PRJ, you make a relatively level-headed argument, but there's a serious flaw in it: you mistake "playing a lot" for "name recognition" among casual fans.
Let's start with examples from other competitions: would you prefer the US Open in tennis or golf (both of which are open-qualifying events with reserved spots, similar to PTs) to make the majority of invites go to people who play every weekend on the Nationwide Tour or smaller circuits, or should they go to the best players in the world regardless of play? That's not even rhetorical - both choose skill.
Obviously Wizards has the additional constraint of ROI on their marketing dollar. But that's pretty easy to address, as well -
*Casual fans of the Tour - the ones whose dollars you are attracting - are likely not the people following the SCG tournaments, right? So why favor a Bertoncini over a Reitzl, whose past victories on large stages carry a cachet that actually reaches the lowest level of play?
*The tantalizing promise of making the PT will be just pisspounded when the casual fan learns he has to barnstorm against GerryT all year, at a net loss, to make one of now THREE PTs - the GP Dream (one of the easier ways to make a non-PTQ appearance, whether by top-16 or gaining enough Elo points) is dead, and the FNM Dream will be too.
*You mistake your own view as spectator (a VERY informed one at that) for the Common Man's view from the street. You know these guys who play every week - who the hell else does? Obv SCG isn't making a killing on the Series, since they've all but eliminated their Player's Club too (nice sleeves, seriously) - is the viewership even significant?
It's a simple cost-cutting measure - the intent was never to "improve" the product. The intent was to choke it as little as possible under their new budget.
I'll try to go more in-depth later, but there's one glaring thing here: you criminally underrate Silent Departure. In this format, it's absolutely unreal. In your decks, it would have been amazing.
Also, my inclination is that Geistflame is better early than Into the Maw - like, I'd rather have the first Geistflame than the first Maw, but I can see that changing later.
To misquote a former vice presidential candidate: "I know Force of Will. Force of Will is a friend of mine. Thwart; you sir are no Force of Will."
Misdirection might see some play, at least as Force of Will #5.
I'm older thann you kids, so I have lived through a lot of previous Novembers. Half the days don't really exist. Trust me - 24 days is correct.
PRJ
Actually, my TARDIS has a working chameleon circuit, so it looks like a DeLorian. However, the day counter is a bit off. ;)
All right, I have built a version incorporating many of these ideas and will give it a try.
I already had a lot of artifact accel. I also had the two graveyard sculptors you mentioned, and went further moratorium stone and stonecloaker.
I added in an indestructible package, and jammed in a bunch of sweepers. Also added a fair number of tutors.
I still can't bring my self to run the mass discard. I did slide in Mind Slash though. It gives me a more targeted way to attack hands and adds to the creature sacrifice sub theme that I like.
This new version of the deck feels much more like something I would normally play. It has a specific game plan and a focused strategy which I appreciate. Unfocused good stuff decks do tend to bore me. I am not a huge fan of being this tutor heavy, but will give it a try.
I'm wondering if Force of Will will continue to go down with Foil and Thwart from Masques block returning.
Do'h, that was pretty obvious about the Deceever Exarch and Fatestitcher. Sorry.
That is a deal. I mean, laugh all you want about how dredge (real dredge) kills on turns 1-4 and block dredge typically has 1-2 guys in play by turn 4.
Okay now you just listen here!
...
...Yeah I guess you're right. But I still get to make a tiny smirk every time I talk about the deck. Fair?
I mean, I like Odyssey as much as the next masochist, but Dredge is an archetype at this point across basically every format. Zendikar has a GY-abusing deck, so did Zendikar/Alara block, so does Vintage... Dredge has joined the names of archetypes much the way the Zoo has become the "cheap big dudes backed up with spells" archetype, RDW is the red deck (except for Burn I guess), and Storm is basically everyone combo deck that runs a storm finisher. It may be a bit dumb, but it just is.
I do support UGDTPCFYDIYGAS as the deck name if you really hate dredge though.
I still don't think it should be called Dredge but I like your name way better. Hence force I'm going to refer to it as
"UG Deck That Puts Cards From Your Deck Into Your Graveyard And Stuff"
It's not the mechanics that give me the Madness vibe, it's the tempo the deck seems to have. Piloting it brings me back to Odyssey block for some reason...
It was REALLY weird to me how they basically ignored the fact that it seemed like Hasbro mandated cutting costs and they just spun it like it was all positive. Hasbro needs to pull their heads out. You cannot cut MTG costs and hurt a very profitable product to prop up your other crappy products like they seem determined to do.
RE: UG dredge.
Dredge is by far a better name than madness. I could almost see "graveyard combo" but even without the actual dredge combo, you KNOW what a dredge deck is doing. Why would you call it Madness when it has 0 madness cards and doesn't even have cards that play like madness (a.e. no discard for an effect spells) compared to the fact that it has a ton of "put cards from your deck into your GY..." stuff.
Massacre Wurm really loves those Zombies tokens. Great end story there. As far as buying in is concerned it really is tricky. Whilst you are busy figuring out what is going to be hot/important to get so is everyone else. Sure some people will sell out while the prices are high, in theory deflating them, but the really good cards might not drop much at all. It is hard to predict exactly where the low point in that arc will be. (Especially for non-mathematicians.)
by the Worlds tourney...smaller, easier on Operating costs, "Clash of the Titans" feel....
But I just hope the larger MTG suppliers worldwide are brainstorming on how to make their own business profit from this change. Because if I owned a store in Brazil or wherever, I would worry about the future of my business and maybe try to create a profitable tourney circuit. It certainly seems reasonable...
Basically, my point is, we don't need Wizards to have tourneys with good payouts.
that by making this change they are moving in the direction of privatizing the MTG tournament circuit, right? Just like everything else in a capitalist system (for more reference see Social Security, Medicaid, Corporate Prisons, Corporate Schools, etc ad infinitum)
The SCG Opens are evidence that tournament magic can thrive without WotC support. Well, WotC support for these costs money. They are trying to cut costs to make things more profitable, as evidenced by the end of the Player Reward program. I think they have just come to a point where they realize that they can continue to control supply without having to pay "winners" out of their own pockets.
If you owned a business that was presented with data to support this claim, you would feel the same way and make the same decision (at least in the greed-driven world I live in).
I understand that you are from Brazil, and that competitive MTG was just starting to flourish there. This change certainly sucks from the perspective of Nationals "ending", but who is to say that some private tournament organizer from Sao Paulo won't pick up the pieces and get something going there??
I truly feel bad for foreign country pros in this change. I just hope that someone realizes that there are profits to be made and does continue some kind of tournament circuit in Brazil, the Czech Republic, Russia, etc....There are good competitive MTG players from those countries. But if anyone expected that WotC and their parent company Hasbro to continue to let people ride "the gravy train", then you were setting yourself up for disappointment.
Yes this was the crux for me to. I am not interested in playing in Nationals (ever) but over the years I have truly enjoyed reading about the various things that happened at the national events across the globe. Now that seems to be irrelevant. But what if someone comes along and makes them relevant again? It is not impossible.
But I think well formulated arguments with data to back it up are the way to go....Unfortunately, I think that would be an uphill battle anyway.