You know I follow pauper prices like very few others.
I feel like the pauper market is definitely being manipulated at the moment. Cards are rising and crashing overnight! (i understand the market will do this to a degree post-bannings, but this is NOT just a result of post-bannings.)
Some of the pauper cards people were mentioning above have already crashed... This is normally a sign that some idiot is trying to prop up prices (and hope they stick).
Slippery Bogle is a great example! Was $.08. Shot up to near 1.25 a few days ago; already around what I feel is it's (correct) price of $.15
If any creature from the GW hexproof deck is going to catch fire - I'd bet it's Ledgewalker. But it won't happen like that. $.08 -> $1.25 -> $.15 is clearly attempted market manipulation to me.
And Bogle is not the only card I've seen this happen with.
I wrote this article last week sometime. Since then, Star City has posted some results of Modern events where Jund minus Bloodbraid has still dominated the field. Whoops!
I suppose it could. Sadly, the heavy blue requirement in both cards means that they still aren't easy to cast once you've assembled Tron. However, if you were going to go for it this might be a good shell to work with.
I always enjoy seeing Modern deck ideas and it is by far my favourite format. Thanks for mentioning my Elemental Combo article too! I think the changes you made to the deck are very interesting.
I think Extort just hasn't found a home yet in a good constructed deck. I think Bloodrush has already started finding its way into quality decks and I fully expect to see a deck come out that abuses it. The idea of an uncounterable creature boost is strong. Instead of running stuff like Giant Growth you just run more creatures.
Even the bloodrush cards like Skinbrand Goblin and Slaughterhorn are decent and Wasteland Viper can be a blowout if the blocks go just right.
tl;dr version: don't write them off yet. It's still early.
You say the guildgates make it possible to play RUG colors, but looking at your manabase, half of it comes into play tapped. 2 Expanse + 3 Karoos + 6 Guildgates = 11/19. I don't see the upside in making a worse manabase than Mono Blue Delver. I suppose it would be more fun to play this over Mono Blue, it would make the mirror more pleasant to play.
I think that extort can be very powerful in the right constructed deck. I think that the main things that make Extort strong in a deck is if the card has some other use for the card besides extort and if the deck does not plan on usually winning by curving out. I top 4'd this Premier Event with 2 Thrull Parasites, and after the event was over was wishing I bumped them up to 4.
My deck used Thrull parasites primarily for two things. The first was I would use them as a Pseudo Blood Artist by sacrificing Gravecrawler and using Extort when recasting it. The second is that they could be used to take the undying counter off of Geralf's Messengers to keep them going.
I have also been seeing Blind Obediance in a lot of places in Competitive Standard. I have used it in a BWR build to money a couple daily events (although I think the metagame is developing to a point that it is not right in that deck.) I am also seeing that card in many Esper Control decks. I also had an idea to see if I can make it work in UWR Burning Vengeance, although Rest in Peace says I probably can not.
I feel like the rest of the Common/Uncommon Extort things can be labled as limited cards like most commons and uncommons. I think I can also make a probably excuse for why the other rares may not be Constructed playable. I feel like they may have feared that Treasure Thrull may lock newer players down in Prereleases, and not be a fun promo. It feels to me like felt the need to jack the mana cost up. I also feel that WOTC thought that Mono Black Control was going to be a real deck in Standard, and did not want to give them to powerful of a tool in Crypt Ghast. If it was not a four drop that died to Pillar of Flame it would be worth considering.
The mechanic is strong, just most of the cards it is on do not quite get there for one reason or another. Hopefully in Dragon's Maze Extort gets a great card like how Living Equipment got Batterskull in New Phyrexia.
I wouldn't write extort off just yet. I've already used it to great affect against control decks and even some aggro decks, who thought they had me on the ropes.
Funniest moment was recurring a 1 cost guy with Havengul Lich with 3 extort fellows out. My opponent didn't figure on that math and had let me through for enough that that killed him.
Granted he didn't know the Havengul was coming and or didn't figure on Ghast's mana granting ability.
Man, I really wish you got to attack with that Lord of the Void at least once, just for the fun of it. :)
My current reading of this set is that is way more focused on Limited than Constructed, especially compared to RTR. I mean, pretty much all the guild mechanics here seem something good in Limited, almost entirely irrelevant in Constructed. The Orzhov's one is the best example of this: extort is certainly very powerful in Limited, but to be playable in Constructed would need to be on creatures you would play regardless, not on vanilla dorks.
In pauper - your best scenerio is similar to a good muc draw. Turn 1 - delver, Turn 2 (BEFORE DRAW) cast brianstorm. Preordain and Ponder are great cards...but approx 11% of the time they'll prove a turn slower. Personally, I've lost A LOT of games by one turn. ;)
The problem here is that you're asking your Delver to blind flip every time. You do have 25 spells to flip him, but everyone I know who has ever played Delver can't play him in Standard right now due to a lack of good topdeck manipulation, even with 28 spells (and yes, we've tested it into oblivion). You're not adding in Brainstorm for the shuffle synergy, you're adding it in to 1) cantrip, and 2) flip Delver consistently. For that matter I'd add in either Ponder or Preordain, as they'll make your draws MUCH more consistent. It's just standard practice with Delver.
As for Jilt, it actually isn't good. I've played it myself plenty of times and not once has it impressed. 4 mana is currently too expensive in Pauper unless you're on a control plan (Post), especially if it doesn't net you some form of card advantage or make a large difference to the board state, and unfortunately, Jilt just isn't good enough (for me). This is just an opinion though, take it how you will.
Esper has been my deck of choice in standard for the last few months, and from my experience you win by either 1) milling them out with Drownyard, or 2) ultimating Tamiyo (which always win you the game no matter what - usually by a concession right away, but sometimes by generating infinite spirit tokens).
Indeed it is.
Given the high focus on creature based win conditions, and the current state of poor counter and spot removal, it isn't surprising to see someone load up on sweeper type control elements and try to use a land based win condition.
I've had the opposite experience- at least since Scars of Mirrodin came out. I drew two Koth of the Hammer at the pre-release when he was 40 dollars. I traded both of them away. At the Gatecrash event, Duskmantle Seer was 15 dollars. One game was enough to convince me that he's actually quite terrible. He has no place in any format I can think of. He's like Molten-Tail Masticore and Protean Hydra: mythics that shouldn't be mythics.
Moreover, even while playing standard in the various times I've tried it (and will likely try again), I have always come away feeling disappointed that there are a few decks which are simply matchup proof. There's nothing you can do against these decks. You just sit there, play your cards, and lose. I've never got this feeling in Modern, even while I went 4-0 and 3-1 with regularity.
I was wondering the same thing, especially because none of those ultimates actually wins you the game (if not the singleton Memory Adept in late game). Tamiyo just makes your control cards infinitely recursive, which means achieving supreme control but it's not a wincon by itself. And Architect of Thought just gives you one of your other control cards, and one of the opponent's cards, which is hardly enough to win, unless they were playing some Eldrazi-level threat in their deck.
It's not so baffling, people like new things. Standard is where the things are constantly new (at least at face value). You go to the store, the new set is out, so cool, you have to play with it, stat!
(I think we too often get caught in our own intellectual trips and underestimate the novelty power of this game, which is first and foremost about collecting cards with nice pictures on them.)
Why do you think people are willing to spend big money to buy the new cards during the prerelease, at prices that will be all but halved two days later? Because they have to play a PTQ exactly that day? No, my friend, people are just too eager, to excited, can't help it. It's kind of a bug, but we've been all in that place about something at some point or another.
And once you own those fancy new cards you craved, what can you do? Find a place for maybe one of them in a Legacy deck? See if some of them combine strongly enough for Modern? Or maybe there's a format where ALL the new cards are protagonist? And that's how the Standard events fire every 10 minutes.
This said, I'm currently resisting the urge to buy three copies of Obzedat for my freshly designed Modern Orzhov deck, and a couple Domri Rade for Jund Pod.
I don't see how brainstorm would be better at all. We've got very few ways to shuffle, an already high chance to flip delver, and brainstorm doesn't actually do anything to the board.
I'm not sure but I believe the main win condition of Esper Control is actually using Nephalia Drownyard to mill your opponent. Ultimating a planeswalker will probably work just as nicely though.
One thing I'd like to clarify. If I were playing in a PTQ or a Grand Prix or a Star City tournament, I'd want to be packin' some serious heat. I'd find a powerful deck list online and I'd assemble the pieces and go to war with that. I'm not into the game seriously enough to invest that much cash (and, yes, I do have a job).
I go to FNM every week. Most of my deckbuilding is in the form of templating. I enjoy taking deck lists and substituting cards to make it standard legal. This has been more successful for me than you might think.
Last week, I saw the list for Human Reanimator by Brian Braun-Duin. Great deck, wonderful deck. However, I have no intention of shelling out a hundred bucks for Huntmasters, so I put in Attended Knights: 2/2 first strike and you get a 1/1 soldier token to boot. I tinkered with (read "cheapened") the mana base and started playtesting. The only rares in the deck were three copies of Angel of Glory's Rise (and they are still cheap right now).
I took it to FNM and I lost two games all night (both were due to my play mistakes). I got first place and twenty bucks of store credit. But, I do admit that if I were gonna play against Brian Kibler or Pat Chapin, I'd want the full meal deal, Huntmasters and all the trimmings.
You know I follow pauper prices like very few others.
I feel like the pauper market is definitely being manipulated at the moment. Cards are rising and crashing overnight! (i understand the market will do this to a degree post-bannings, but this is NOT just a result of post-bannings.)
Some of the pauper cards people were mentioning above have already crashed... This is normally a sign that some idiot is trying to prop up prices (and hope they stick).
Slippery Bogle is a great example! Was $.08. Shot up to near 1.25 a few days ago; already around what I feel is it's (correct) price of $.15
If any creature from the GW hexproof deck is going to catch fire - I'd bet it's Ledgewalker. But it won't happen like that. $.08 -> $1.25 -> $.15 is clearly attempted market manipulation to me.
And Bogle is not the only card I've seen this happen with.
Hey you're welcome! :)
I wrote this article last week sometime. Since then, Star City has posted some results of Modern events where Jund minus Bloodbraid has still dominated the field. Whoops!
I suppose it could. Sadly, the heavy blue requirement in both cards means that they still aren't easy to cast once you've assembled Tron. However, if you were going to go for it this might be a good shell to work with.
Dare I ask but....can this deck run Omniscience and Enter the Infinite?
Loving this article a lot!
I always enjoy seeing Modern deck ideas and it is by far my favourite format. Thanks for mentioning my Elemental Combo article too! I think the changes you made to the deck are very interesting.
I think Extort just hasn't found a home yet in a good constructed deck. I think Bloodrush has already started finding its way into quality decks and I fully expect to see a deck come out that abuses it. The idea of an uncounterable creature boost is strong. Instead of running stuff like Giant Growth you just run more creatures.
Even the bloodrush cards like Skinbrand Goblin and Slaughterhorn are decent and Wasteland Viper can be a blowout if the blocks go just right.
tl;dr version: don't write them off yet. It's still early.
Cool article and a fun deck it looks like! Mind trying to take it for a swing in the casual room and uploading the results?
You say the guildgates make it possible to play RUG colors, but looking at your manabase, half of it comes into play tapped. 2 Expanse + 3 Karoos + 6 Guildgates = 11/19. I don't see the upside in making a worse manabase than Mono Blue Delver. I suppose it would be more fun to play this over Mono Blue, it would make the mirror more pleasant to play.
I think that extort can be very powerful in the right constructed deck. I think that the main things that make Extort strong in a deck is if the card has some other use for the card besides extort and if the deck does not plan on usually winning by curving out. I top 4'd this Premier Event with 2 Thrull Parasites, and after the event was over was wishing I bumped them up to 4.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital...
My deck used Thrull parasites primarily for two things. The first was I would use them as a Pseudo Blood Artist by sacrificing Gravecrawler and using Extort when recasting it. The second is that they could be used to take the undying counter off of Geralf's Messengers to keep them going.
I have also been seeing Blind Obediance in a lot of places in Competitive Standard. I have used it in a BWR build to money a couple daily events (although I think the metagame is developing to a point that it is not right in that deck.) I am also seeing that card in many Esper Control decks. I also had an idea to see if I can make it work in UWR Burning Vengeance, although Rest in Peace says I probably can not.
I feel like the rest of the Common/Uncommon Extort things can be labled as limited cards like most commons and uncommons. I think I can also make a probably excuse for why the other rares may not be Constructed playable. I feel like they may have feared that Treasure Thrull may lock newer players down in Prereleases, and not be a fun promo. It feels to me like felt the need to jack the mana cost up. I also feel that WOTC thought that Mono Black Control was going to be a real deck in Standard, and did not want to give them to powerful of a tool in Crypt Ghast. If it was not a four drop that died to Pillar of Flame it would be worth considering.
The mechanic is strong, just most of the cards it is on do not quite get there for one reason or another. Hopefully in Dragon's Maze Extort gets a great card like how Living Equipment got Batterskull in New Phyrexia.
Indeed, I suspect extort may be better than it looks in constructed. I know I have some ideas about Syndic of Tithes...
I wouldn't write extort off just yet. I've already used it to great affect against control decks and even some aggro decks, who thought they had me on the ropes.
Funniest moment was recurring a 1 cost guy with Havengul Lich with 3 extort fellows out. My opponent didn't figure on that math and had let me through for enough that that killed him.
Granted he didn't know the Havengul was coming and or didn't figure on Ghast's mana granting ability.
Man, I really wish you got to attack with that Lord of the Void at least once, just for the fun of it. :)
My current reading of this set is that is way more focused on Limited than Constructed, especially compared to RTR. I mean, pretty much all the guild mechanics here seem something good in Limited, almost entirely irrelevant in Constructed. The Orzhov's one is the best example of this: extort is certainly very powerful in Limited, but to be playable in Constructed would need to be on creatures you would play regardless, not on vanilla dorks.
Also, if your determined to make this THREE colors (good grief!) brainstorm will help fix your early mana.
This is a cute casual list - but players should think twice before trying to make any money with it...and that's not my opinion - it's math.
In pauper - your best scenerio is similar to a good muc draw. Turn 1 - delver, Turn 2 (BEFORE DRAW) cast brianstorm. Preordain and Ponder are great cards...but approx 11% of the time they'll prove a turn slower. Personally, I've lost A LOT of games by one turn. ;)
The problem here is that you're asking your Delver to blind flip every time. You do have 25 spells to flip him, but everyone I know who has ever played Delver can't play him in Standard right now due to a lack of good topdeck manipulation, even with 28 spells (and yes, we've tested it into oblivion). You're not adding in Brainstorm for the shuffle synergy, you're adding it in to 1) cantrip, and 2) flip Delver consistently. For that matter I'd add in either Ponder or Preordain, as they'll make your draws MUCH more consistent. It's just standard practice with Delver.
As for Jilt, it actually isn't good. I've played it myself plenty of times and not once has it impressed. 4 mana is currently too expensive in Pauper unless you're on a control plan (Post), especially if it doesn't net you some form of card advantage or make a large difference to the board state, and unfortunately, Jilt just isn't good enough (for me). This is just an opinion though, take it how you will.
Esper has been my deck of choice in standard for the last few months, and from my experience you win by either 1) milling them out with Drownyard, or 2) ultimating Tamiyo (which always win you the game no matter what - usually by a concession right away, but sometimes by generating infinite spirit tokens).
there are a lot of spells to flip delver, but what are the odds of drawing delver + one of the 5 islands in your opening hand?
Indeed it is.
Given the high focus on creature based win conditions, and the current state of poor counter and spot removal, it isn't surprising to see someone load up on sweeper type control elements and try to use a land based win condition.
I've had the opposite experience- at least since Scars of Mirrodin came out. I drew two Koth of the Hammer at the pre-release when he was 40 dollars. I traded both of them away. At the Gatecrash event, Duskmantle Seer was 15 dollars. One game was enough to convince me that he's actually quite terrible. He has no place in any format I can think of. He's like Molten-Tail Masticore and Protean Hydra: mythics that shouldn't be mythics.
Moreover, even while playing standard in the various times I've tried it (and will likely try again), I have always come away feeling disappointed that there are a few decks which are simply matchup proof. There's nothing you can do against these decks. You just sit there, play your cards, and lose. I've never got this feeling in Modern, even while I went 4-0 and 3-1 with regularity.
I was wondering the same thing, especially because none of those ultimates actually wins you the game (if not the singleton Memory Adept in late game). Tamiyo just makes your control cards infinitely recursive, which means achieving supreme control but it's not a wincon by itself. And Architect of Thought just gives you one of your other control cards, and one of the opponent's cards, which is hardly enough to win, unless they were playing some Eldrazi-level threat in their deck.
"Standard remains bafflingly popular".
It's not so baffling, people like new things. Standard is where the things are constantly new (at least at face value). You go to the store, the new set is out, so cool, you have to play with it, stat!
(I think we too often get caught in our own intellectual trips and underestimate the novelty power of this game, which is first and foremost about collecting cards with nice pictures on them.)
Why do you think people are willing to spend big money to buy the new cards during the prerelease, at prices that will be all but halved two days later? Because they have to play a PTQ exactly that day? No, my friend, people are just too eager, to excited, can't help it. It's kind of a bug, but we've been all in that place about something at some point or another.
And once you own those fancy new cards you craved, what can you do? Find a place for maybe one of them in a Legacy deck? See if some of them combine strongly enough for Modern? Or maybe there's a format where ALL the new cards are protagonist? And that's how the Standard events fire every 10 minutes.
This said, I'm currently resisting the urge to buy three copies of Obzedat for my freshly designed Modern Orzhov deck, and a couple Domri Rade for Jund Pod.
I don't see how brainstorm would be better at all. We've got very few ways to shuffle, an already high chance to flip delver, and brainstorm doesn't actually do anything to the board.
I'm not sure but I believe the main win condition of Esper Control is actually using Nephalia Drownyard to mill your opponent. Ultimating a planeswalker will probably work just as nicely though.
One thing I'd like to clarify. If I were playing in a PTQ or a Grand Prix or a Star City tournament, I'd want to be packin' some serious heat. I'd find a powerful deck list online and I'd assemble the pieces and go to war with that. I'm not into the game seriously enough to invest that much cash (and, yes, I do have a job).
I go to FNM every week. Most of my deckbuilding is in the form of templating. I enjoy taking deck lists and substituting cards to make it standard legal. This has been more successful for me than you might think.
Last week, I saw the list for Human Reanimator by Brian Braun-Duin. Great deck, wonderful deck. However, I have no intention of shelling out a hundred bucks for Huntmasters, so I put in Attended Knights: 2/2 first strike and you get a 1/1 soldier token to boot. I tinkered with (read "cheapened") the mana base and started playtesting. The only rares in the deck were three copies of Angel of Glory's Rise (and they are still cheap right now).
I took it to FNM and I lost two games all night (both were due to my play mistakes). I got first place and twenty bucks of store credit. But, I do admit that if I were gonna play against Brian Kibler or Pat Chapin, I'd want the full meal deal, Huntmasters and all the trimmings.
If your casting jilt with kicker, you've probably already one. Perhaps brainstorm here would be better.