I'm actually a bit surprised you hold such animosity towards a rage quitter. Sure, it's a jerk move, but in my opinion it's on the lesser end of the spectrum of the annoying and offensive behavior I've seen online. Whenever I've played casual games I've seen players quit at the drop of a hat. Sure, nothing is on the line, but it's still a massive waste of time, and at least when it is done in a tournament, you know you've won something against your quitter. Also I've seen players do much worse than simply rage-quit. Some players stop moving for 9 minutes, hit okay, wait for another 9 minutes, hit okay again, and try to wait out their entire clocks. I consider insulting language, when it is excessive, to be a much greater bane on Magic Online than quitting.
As a measure of jerkiness, I try to think about what would make a new and inexperienced player leave the game for good. I think more players would quit due to insults than a rage quitting, but I really don't have any evidence to back that up.
I assume we are talking Liliana of the Veil (there are other, lesser builds.) Since these are seeing play in both Modern and Legacy, I doubt they are going to drop much.
Actually, now is one of the worst times to dump rotating cards. The cards that are going to have already crashed in value: Thragtusk is down to around $2. Anything that is playable in the future is going to rebound. The rest - not so much.
One exception that might be worth selling off is Thundermaw. That does not seem good enough to make it big in Modern or Legacy, but it is still worth some TIX. I'm not sure why - but then again, I am playing with mine.
BDM turned me on to Amulet + Summer Bloom combo a few years ago. I mentioned it in an article after building such a deck. Of course this was before modern so it was Tribal wars Classic or legacy that my deck was designed for. Pretty awesome that it's making a come back.
You passed a Barrage of Expendables, Bubbling Cauldron, and Altar's Reap without even commenting on them as possible picks, and then ended up without enough sacrifice outlets. You need to prioritize those higher when drafting this type of deck. Also Molten Rebirth deserves considering if you have enough good sacrifice outlets.
First off, thank you all for the positive reviews!
Simic Delver - my first draft would be something like the U/G Delver deck that showed up a few times at the beginning of the Std PTQ season. It used Quirion Dryad as another outlet for all of those instants. The Modern version would have Mutagenic Growth to help protect the Dryad as well as Manamorphose to keep spell chains going. It would probably turn out a bit like Niv-Kiln combo? I would probably try to put the Paradise Mantle/Blistercoil Weird combo in...maybe that is too greedy? Well, Quirion is cheap, I might just try it out.
There are a couple of Simic colored creatures that I have my eye on, maybe once things settle down from Theros I will put the deck together. :)
Gatekeeper was so-so in the main. Most decks are running Kitchen Finks and it trumps Gatekeeper in almost everyway. I think that in a very heavy Bogle meta I'd keep them. Also, if you changed the deck up and put some buffs into it, whether Swords of Batterskull or something, then it would be better.
Squelch is decent. Sadly you can't just "cycle" it like you can Shadow of Doubt, but it can stop things that Shadow can't. In another test game I stopped a Batterskull equip with it; Shadow doesn't do that.
oh, Phyrexian Obliterator, now THAT is a 4 mana finisher! I kept eyeing up Duskmantle Seer with my relatively low curve, but yeah, wow, Obliterator. Good suggestion. It would be easy to make the mana base support mostly black to power it out. Plus I'm a huge fan of Phyrexian Arena.
Parasalene is an extreme hoser on Bogle. The instant speed of Tempest of Light might be better just for the surprise factor? Life gain IS good though. Personally, my "living the dream" against Bogle would be to blow them out with Hibernation. :)
I really like the UW Delver list. Have you considered making room for Paraselene in the sideboard for the hexproof matchup? It's a sweet 2- or 3-for-1 against Hexproof that also gains you a couple life in the exchange.
Maybe the Dimir Delver would be better off as a nearly MBC that splashes blue for the Delver and 6-8 1U counters. This way, once EVERY land in the deck produces black (not hard to do in Modern: 4 Watery Grave, 4 Drowned Catacomb, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Verdant Catacombs, 2 Sunken Ruins, 2 Underground River, 2-3 Urborg), you can have Phyrexian Obliterator as your top-of-the-curve finisher.
The rest of the deck is just Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena and control elements.
I like your both decks, especially Dimir decks seems interesting to try. And I have some inquiries about for your games with the below two cards:
* How did Gatekeeper of Malakir perform on the Main deck? My concern is about the consistency to cast Gatekeeper with full kicker cost as Three Black Mana Cost can be an issue time to time for a multicolored deck.
* What is your final verdict about the Squelch? I'm thinking to try it in the MD as a budget alternative of Shadow of Doubt.
I have tried a Simic Delver deck with Tarmogoyf a while ago but never finish the final adjustments. I guess it will be much more efficient to implement Legacy BUG version Delver deck to the Modern for more options like; Abrupt decay and maybe some Dark Confidant.
Good point Michael, tangle wire certainly helped, the reason I wanted the land (ideally a cradle, tomb, or tolarian) was to use skullclamp while I could before hammer mage cleared my crits and clamp. But if a land wasn't in the cards, tangle wire was a nice substitute. You having mana problems as well helped me considerably.
Serenity is nice, waiting the turn is the issue but I agree it is a good option. I liked watching the game from your POV thanks for sharing!
I was your third round opponent. I actually had a decent hand g1, it was basically turn 1 Rod, turn 2 Imperial Recruiter into turn 3 Kataki, but unfortunately I wasn't expecting to get hit with the turn 1 Golem, which I obviously wasn't able to do anything about. As for g2, I'm surprised you didn't mention Wire as key. It was a way better topdeck than a land in that situation, even though it hurt you for a turn (and you def had some topdeck skills with Academy) because if I didn't have to tap down to Wire I could have followed up the Hammer Mage play with something else (I ended the game with Intrepid Hero, Devout Witness, Blood Moon, and Manic Vandal all stuck in my hand.)
I agree about Null Rod not being enough by itself, although it's still pretty damn effective...against stuff that's not freakin' Lodestone Golem! :) I would add Serenity as a card that can be pretty devastating against Affinity. You do have a wait a turn, but it can't be Dismembered and can't be mitigated with Academy and Cradle.
I actually recorded this tourney as well, for any one who might be interested (yeah, I'm shamelessly pimping myself a bit):
Love the Classic videos! Keep em coming!
It's rare to see that many creatures in a Classic game. I would not have been able to keep track of those boards. Good work.
It seems Theros will be a significant slower format for Standard with all kinds of Midrange creatures, Gods, enchantments. But I think most of these cards will easily find a home at the Commander format as viable options.
Currently only Four of them have been spoiled and even everyone of them are good enough to be splashed to their respective Mono colors. I don't even want to imagine what will happen after we got all the 15 Gods from this block. I guess, they will become staples for some peoples, like the Mirrodin Sword cycles are.
And I have to admit that Monstrosity is actually very efficient mechanic as general for the decks with Midrange or Higher range, and they will be even better in Commander or maybe Singleton. I guess Polukranos wasn't a good example to evaluate this mechanic. As I liked; Ember Swallower, Polis Crusher and Hunderd-Handed One more than Polukranos. Briefly, this is kind of Level Up mechanic for higher ends and a good justification to use the excess Mana later. I respect the cards that can present extra value with the game progression.
Thanks for your comments. Avatar of Hope and Leyline are providing effective protection against common strategies, but still it is easy to kill the Avatar with several ways and breach this defense line.
What can I say, I like to test new & rogue decks here.
I agree with the new art of Thoughtseize, as it is totally mediocre. I guess that guy ın the picture is turning into a Returned. Skin is turning gray, still don't make any sense.
I like the original illustration of Avatar of Hope, even that is a little weird for an Avatar, it is more like something Angelish...
I actually ran into this deck a few days ago while testing. I was completely surprised when Avatar of Hope dropped onto the field. I had no way past it and died to a huge Shadow a few turns later. I managed to win the other games on the back of a creature rush, so it is possible to overwhelm them if the Avatar doesn't show up.
Thanks for showcasing yet another idea that is off the Modern radar!
Glad about Thoughtseize being reprinted, but the original art was so much better. The new one seems to depict a guy who's melting or catching fire. What his hands have to do with his thoughts being stolen?
Speaking of weird art, Mark Zug had to be on heavy drugs when he thought of the embodiment of hope as a centaur lady with bull horns, feathered wings, a s/m tank top and some sort of scythe casually held like it's a golf club.
In mythology, a demigod is often the offspring of a god and a mortal (like Achilles or Perseus and all the other kids Zeus disseminated throughout the world). But you're right that they might have thought of the other definition instead, because otherwise it doesn't seem too fair that Rakdos gets a half god while the other pairings get a full one.
(It's still not fair that Rakdos gets a lesser god, but I guess they just ran out of synonyms.)
Yeah, I kinda think they could've gone with Avatar for these gods — after all, it's how the gods walk the earth anyway: through avatars. (Even the Eldrazi we see are the Eldrazi forced into material form by the still unnamed lithomancer that was buddy with Sorin and Ugin.)
They wanted to associate the new subtype with the new card mechanic, I guess. To better focus on their flavor and peculiarity.
Good point on the spirit avatars. That said, there's a lot of avatar overlap here, that tribe being the usual catchall for deific personification to date, see also Marit Lage and Progenitus.
I'm actually a bit surprised you hold such animosity towards a rage quitter. Sure, it's a jerk move, but in my opinion it's on the lesser end of the spectrum of the annoying and offensive behavior I've seen online. Whenever I've played casual games I've seen players quit at the drop of a hat. Sure, nothing is on the line, but it's still a massive waste of time, and at least when it is done in a tournament, you know you've won something against your quitter. Also I've seen players do much worse than simply rage-quit. Some players stop moving for 9 minutes, hit okay, wait for another 9 minutes, hit okay again, and try to wait out their entire clocks. I consider insulting language, when it is excessive, to be a much greater bane on Magic Online than quitting.
As a measure of jerkiness, I try to think about what would make a new and inexperienced player leave the game for good. I think more players would quit due to insults than a rage quitting, but I really don't have any evidence to back that up.
I assume we are talking Liliana of the Veil (there are other, lesser builds.) Since these are seeing play in both Modern and Legacy, I doubt they are going to drop much.
Actually, now is one of the worst times to dump rotating cards. The cards that are going to have already crashed in value: Thragtusk is down to around $2. Anything that is playable in the future is going to rebound. The rest - not so much.
One exception that might be worth selling off is Thundermaw. That does not seem good enough to make it big in Modern or Legacy, but it is still worth some TIX. I'm not sure why - but then again, I am playing with mine.
BDM turned me on to Amulet + Summer Bloom combo a few years ago. I mentioned it in an article after building such a deck. Of course this was before modern so it was Tribal wars Classic or legacy that my deck was designed for. Pretty awesome that it's making a come back.
Good luck winning stuff for the charity! :)
great article as always.
Wondering now if i should dump my Lilianna's now before it gets closer to rotation to get the most value...
You passed a Barrage of Expendables, Bubbling Cauldron, and Altar's Reap without even commenting on them as possible picks, and then ended up without enough sacrifice outlets. You need to prioritize those higher when drafting this type of deck. Also Molten Rebirth deserves considering if you have enough good sacrifice outlets.
You know who else is good in a Phyrexian Obliterator deck? Erebos!
First off, thank you all for the positive reviews!
Simic Delver - my first draft would be something like the U/G Delver deck that showed up a few times at the beginning of the Std PTQ season. It used Quirion Dryad as another outlet for all of those instants. The Modern version would have Mutagenic Growth to help protect the Dryad as well as Manamorphose to keep spell chains going. It would probably turn out a bit like Niv-Kiln combo? I would probably try to put the Paradise Mantle/Blistercoil Weird combo in...maybe that is too greedy? Well, Quirion is cheap, I might just try it out.
There are a couple of Simic colored creatures that I have my eye on, maybe once things settle down from Theros I will put the deck together. :)
Gatekeeper was so-so in the main. Most decks are running Kitchen Finks and it trumps Gatekeeper in almost everyway. I think that in a very heavy Bogle meta I'd keep them. Also, if you changed the deck up and put some buffs into it, whether Swords of Batterskull or something, then it would be better.
Squelch is decent. Sadly you can't just "cycle" it like you can Shadow of Doubt, but it can stop things that Shadow can't. In another test game I stopped a Batterskull equip with it; Shadow doesn't do that.
oh, Phyrexian Obliterator, now THAT is a 4 mana finisher! I kept eyeing up Duskmantle Seer with my relatively low curve, but yeah, wow, Obliterator. Good suggestion. It would be easy to make the mana base support mostly black to power it out. Plus I'm a huge fan of Phyrexian Arena.
Parasalene is an extreme hoser on Bogle. The instant speed of Tempest of Light might be better just for the surprise factor? Life gain IS good though. Personally, my "living the dream" against Bogle would be to blow them out with Hibernation. :)
Thanks again for the comments!
I really like the UW Delver list. Have you considered making room for Paraselene in the sideboard for the hexproof matchup? It's a sweet 2- or 3-for-1 against Hexproof that also gains you a couple life in the exchange.
Maybe the Dimir Delver would be better off as a nearly MBC that splashes blue for the Delver and 6-8 1U counters. This way, once EVERY land in the deck produces black (not hard to do in Modern: 4 Watery Grave, 4 Drowned Catacomb, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Verdant Catacombs, 2 Sunken Ruins, 2 Underground River, 2-3 Urborg), you can have Phyrexian Obliterator as your top-of-the-curve finisher.
The rest of the deck is just Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena and control elements.
Great article.
I like your both decks, especially Dimir decks seems interesting to try. And I have some inquiries about for your games with the below two cards:
* How did Gatekeeper of Malakir perform on the Main deck? My concern is about the consistency to cast Gatekeeper with full kicker cost as Three Black Mana Cost can be an issue time to time for a multicolored deck.
* What is your final verdict about the Squelch? I'm thinking to try it in the MD as a budget alternative of Shadow of Doubt.
I have tried a Simic Delver deck with Tarmogoyf a while ago but never finish the final adjustments. I guess it will be much more efficient to implement Legacy BUG version Delver deck to the Modern for more options like; Abrupt decay and maybe some Dark Confidant.
At this point, I'm curious to see you build a Simic Delver! :) (Seriously, that would be very fun to try.)
Good point Michael, tangle wire certainly helped, the reason I wanted the land (ideally a cradle, tomb, or tolarian) was to use skullclamp while I could before hammer mage cleared my crits and clamp. But if a land wasn't in the cards, tangle wire was a nice substitute. You having mana problems as well helped me considerably.
Serenity is nice, waiting the turn is the issue but I agree it is a good option. I liked watching the game from your POV thanks for sharing!
I was your third round opponent. I actually had a decent hand g1, it was basically turn 1 Rod, turn 2 Imperial Recruiter into turn 3 Kataki, but unfortunately I wasn't expecting to get hit with the turn 1 Golem, which I obviously wasn't able to do anything about. As for g2, I'm surprised you didn't mention Wire as key. It was a way better topdeck than a land in that situation, even though it hurt you for a turn (and you def had some topdeck skills with Academy) because if I didn't have to tap down to Wire I could have followed up the Hammer Mage play with something else (I ended the game with Intrepid Hero, Devout Witness, Blood Moon, and Manic Vandal all stuck in my hand.)
I agree about Null Rod not being enough by itself, although it's still pretty damn effective...against stuff that's not freakin' Lodestone Golem! :) I would add Serenity as a card that can be pretty devastating against Affinity. You do have a wait a turn, but it can't be Dismembered and can't be mitigated with Academy and Cradle.
I actually recorded this tourney as well, for any one who might be interested (yeah, I'm shamelessly pimping myself a bit):
Here's my match with woof (mostly me going, yep...Lodestone...Tangle Wire): http://youtu.be/OAu-nT9LfKo
And here's the deck I played for anyone curious: http://youtu.be/j6QNvfOebx8
Michael
thanks GainsBanding!
Love the Classic videos! Keep em coming!
It's rare to see that many creatures in a Classic game. I would not have been able to keep track of those boards. Good work.
It seems Theros will be a significant slower format for Standard with all kinds of Midrange creatures, Gods, enchantments. But I think most of these cards will easily find a home at the Commander format as viable options.
Currently only Four of them have been spoiled and even everyone of them are good enough to be splashed to their respective Mono colors. I don't even want to imagine what will happen after we got all the 15 Gods from this block. I guess, they will become staples for some peoples, like the Mirrodin Sword cycles are.
And I have to admit that Monstrosity is actually very efficient mechanic as general for the decks with Midrange or Higher range, and they will be even better in Commander or maybe Singleton. I guess Polukranos wasn't a good example to evaluate this mechanic. As I liked; Ember Swallower, Polis Crusher and Hunderd-Handed One more than Polukranos. Briefly, this is kind of Level Up mechanic for higher ends and a good justification to use the excess Mana later. I respect the cards that can present extra value with the game progression.
Thanks for your comments. Avatar of Hope and Leyline are providing effective protection against common strategies, but still it is easy to kill the Avatar with several ways and breach this defense line.
What can I say, I like to test new & rogue decks here.
I agree with the new art of Thoughtseize, as it is totally mediocre. I guess that guy ın the picture is turning into a Returned. Skin is turning gray, still don't make any sense.
I like the original illustration of Avatar of Hope, even that is a little weird for an Avatar, it is more like something Angelish...
I actually ran into this deck a few days ago while testing. I was completely surprised when Avatar of Hope dropped onto the field. I had no way past it and died to a huge Shadow a few turns later. I managed to win the other games on the back of a creature rush, so it is possible to overwhelm them if the Avatar doesn't show up.
Thanks for showcasing yet another idea that is off the Modern radar!
That seems an interesting deck.
Glad about Thoughtseize being reprinted, but the original art was so much better. The new one seems to depict a guy who's melting or catching fire. What his hands have to do with his thoughts being stolen?
Speaking of weird art, Mark Zug had to be on heavy drugs when he thought of the embodiment of hope as a centaur lady with bull horns, feathered wings, a s/m tank top and some sort of scythe casually held like it's a golf club.
In mythology, a demigod is often the offspring of a god and a mortal (like Achilles or Perseus and all the other kids Zeus disseminated throughout the world). But you're right that they might have thought of the other definition instead, because otherwise it doesn't seem too fair that Rakdos gets a half god while the other pairings get a full one.
(It's still not fair that Rakdos gets a lesser god, but I guess they just ran out of synonyms.)
Demigod generally doesn't mean half god but one of small importance. Should translate therefore as "small god"
Yeah, I kinda think they could've gone with Avatar for these gods — after all, it's how the gods walk the earth anyway: through avatars. (Even the Eldrazi we see are the Eldrazi forced into material form by the still unnamed lithomancer that was buddy with Sorin and Ugin.)
They wanted to associate the new subtype with the new card mechanic, I guess. To better focus on their flavor and peculiarity.
Good point on the spirit avatars. That said, there's a lot of avatar overlap here, that tribe being the usual catchall for deific personification to date, see also Marit Lage and Progenitus.