Echo was pretty close to nil in this recording, I thought. except for one line i had to dub over. You have to compress the audio so its under 75mb to upload it to pure, maybe that affected it but it sounded waaay better than last weeks diterlizzi where i totally didnt use the microphone correctly.
Visions would so go in my monowhite commander decks
The mothership has stated after Origins they plan to implement foils in a new way online, to make them better and more appealing: something many, including myself, have complained about previously. They won't ever axe foils, because that's a huge defeat to admit to and because so many exist in the system anyway. If they achieve they goals and the playerbase is satisfied, then potentially foils will all go in price if they are made appealing, viable, and again collectible. So I guess we'll all see together. For me, since foils sell for less, so very often, i buy them regularly and just have the foil animation off. My machine handles it just fine.
I have some issues with reprinting. That is true :-) But it is always interesting to hear alternative viewpoints explained.
Getting rid of foils is an interesting idea. It is striking that it has become more and more common to see foils trade for less than the regular version.
Well I already know YOUR position on this Cauchy from your lengthy discussions on the mothership, so I am not surprised you don't want promos to be reprinted.
And I sympathize. I don't want cards to be utterly devalued either. Though I think there is some wiggle room between total economic meltdown and letting a few more people get their hands on the stuff.
Personally I am only incidentally a collector. Because cards have tend to have and retain value, I collect them but since the collection screen was obliterated in the transition to v4 I no longer really feel the need to admire the many cards I own as a collection.
Their worth to me is a) what I can sell them for or b) what decks I can use them in and very rarely indeed c) whom I can pawn them off on as gifts. (I am a cheapskate philanthropist at best. :p)
As for super rares... the problem is if you can't get them at any cost then no I think that's bad. If you can get them but they are expensive then that is fine with me. Hence a Black Lotus Promo would not bother me at all, but a 32x print run of a black lotus alt art only given to champions...that would bother me a little and if it were the ONLY copies then of course that would have been a disaster. (Glad they didn't go that route.)
That said, Vindicate is not super expensive anymore and probably never will be again. 99% of the reason it was in the first place was the low amount of Invasion block cards available (and that was a problem, imho.) Same with Deed, same with a lot of pretty decent cards that are no longer tournament relevant. On the same token because it is still playable and still sees some small play, Vindicate will hold some value no matter how many promos are released into the wilds.
BUT the foils which have most of the value are still super hard to get (if you care about that sort of thing.) Personally I'd be thrilled if they announced that "premium" cards were forever more a thing of the past. No more sets with them and no more promos with "foiling".
They are somewhat stylin' in paper but they are a joke online and terrible for play value (slowing down the games they are in even when the animations are off.) If your beef is with foil promos seeing print I hear that and concur. They should never be printed again.
Just out of curiousity, why do you think promos should be available? Or stated in another way, dont you think any card online should be super rare? I am fine with some cards being super rare online. If it does not limit the game play. So if they print a new promo Dirtcowl Wurm with unique art to hand out as a special prize for some event, then fine with me. But if Black Lotus was only available if you won player of the year then that would be sad. Having some cards being super rare for example in a promo version gives a little flavour of the paper collectable aspect (for me).
Some might think Vindicate not so good because of the fact that it sees very little play but I love the fact that they put it out again. Promos should be available not ultra rare imho. Glad to see Path getting another spin around too...sold all of mine so I probably won't be getting these (because I doubt the price will drop much while modern is in "season" but if it does I may pick up a set.
I agree, seeing visions (from the dark?!? :P boy what an aptly named card :P) online would be groovy but mainly for the art. There is plenty of art that is only in paper and it would be nice to see them make their way online.
Anyway sounded good today fellas but Adam you need to work on the echo chamber effect. I suspect it is your distance to your mic that is making it do that.
Oh yeah not surprising that people hate on Owen. Superb player with a kind of rude New Jersey attitude (or so I've heard). A lot of the east coast players have that edgy quality. Some are quite surprisingly nice though and I suspect when he isn't making snide tweets about "bad plays" he probably isn't too mean.
I agree that intimate/fear/landwalk would often cause frustrating losses and other times be irrelevant. I'd rather have them keep shroud instead of hexproof but as long as they are careful, it shouldn't be a huge problem.
Protection is another story. Yes, sometimes it is the same as intimate/fear/landwalk but it's also interesting to have, especially for constructed play. If it isn't abused, it can be very useful and should be avoided in commons but used on uncommons, rares and mythics being more relevant in constructed than in limited.
This is one of those interesting areas where information is available, but not widely spread.
On his blog, Mark Rosewater has been talking for a while about how landwalk and intimidate were problem mechanics that they would like to find a better replacement for.
The issue is that it's a mechanic with huge variance, a high ceiling, and a very low floor. To phrase this differently, the ability ranged from making a creature unblockable and impossible to deal with if you lack removal, to meaningless, may as well not be written on the card. What's worse, it was completely random which way it was going to work for you in any given match you play it.
It's hard to balance costs on a card that is either a serious threat or simply a vanilla creature based on essentially the roll of a die at the start of the match.
Not excited about these changes to the Evergreen mechanics. I didn't have a problem with any of those. I'm especially surprised to see Intimidate going away. I also don't love that Prowess is going to be an Evergreen. Think they missed the boat on this one pretty badly.
Hey Joe, as always, that was a fantastic article; I especially enjoyed your interview with Roland and your closing monologue, as well as your support of a Dig Through Time restriction and your reasons for it, which seem very logical. The only difference of opinion I have with your monologue is that I think the way to tell/show people that Vintage can be accessible is, instead of offering less powerful decks which aren't as competitive and aren't on the same level as top-tier decks is to introduce them to proxies, inform them that proxy tournaments are standard, (no pun intended) and show them that playing on MTGO is much cheaper than paper Vintage, or even free if they play on an MTGO alternative, such as Untap.in. Thank you for being a tenacious advocate for the Vintage community, Joe!!
[Edit] Changster emailed me to change his pick for an addition to the restricted list to "Dig Through Time", but I was so busy moving this week, I forgot to check my email. Dig is likely to go though, I think that it's proven how abusive it can be. I know that I've had plenty of games where the entire grind-fest came down to who could peel a Dig Through Time off the top first!
Thanks again, to @Rolandmtg, and @Dbatterskull for talking about Angel City with me!
Hardened Scales+Steel Overseer is neat.
It seems like a roundabout Tempered Steel if you are trying to go wide.
Still, cheaper and easier to cast is better for the deck overall..
Thanks for the comment. It's true that Ravager and Cranial Plating are not the most synergistic combination.
I really Hardened Scales and would like to try and brew with it in Modern. MadKat's Allies deck looked sweet as does your +1/+1 counter-centric Affinity deck. Might have to give something like this a try. Steel Overseer seems nuts with a Scales in play.
Some very interesting lists. Blink Riders is a deck I've never seen before and looks very cool.
The Lantern is something I've seen before but never tried as I imagined it would be a nightmare to play on MTGO. Congrats to Zac though for piloting it so well.
I quite want to try out Dragonlord Ojutai in Modern but it's a bit too expensive for me at the moment.
If you really wanted to you could instead play 1-2 Stomping Ground and more fetchlands in their place. You only ever really need the one Stomping Ground so the rest of the fetches and find Forest instead.
Thank you sir, I was going to write about something completely different, started on that and then just snowballed into this.
I want to show off the cool things that people can do, and while cool, the lantern deck is extremely difficult to play correctly, and to do so while keeping enough time on your clock I believe. I do not think it will see a ton of play on MTGO, but I could be wrong.
I also think the mtgo modern metagame is responding to the rise in Grixis already with more burn, and that makes me super sad.
The game should be over before they have a chance to cast creeping corrosion. That being said, I find cranial plating mostly to be a non-bo with ravager. I don't have the Opals yet either, but I am liking Hardened Scales instead of Plating.
This is my Current List :
Creatures
1 x Triskelion
3 x Ornithopter
4 x Steel Overseer
3 x Memnite
4 x Etched Champion
4 x Arcbound Ravager
4 x Chronomaton
Spells
4 x Springleaf Drum
4 x Hardened Scales
3 x Chromatic Star
4 x Thoughtcast
4 x Galvanic Blast
Land
4 x Blinkmoth Nexus
3 x Darksteel Citadel
4 x Inkmoth Nexus
4 x Glimmervoid
1 x Wooded Foothills
1 x Forest
1 x Mountain
Sideboard
1x Dismember
3x Path to Exile
2x Torpor Orb
4x Whipflare
1x Steel Hellkite
4x Corrosive Gale
very good analysis in the good and bad of mm2. The only thing i don't agree is the end part of the negative where kitesail seems to be a bad card because it actually won me my game a lot of times.
I want you to crush this event so I can say "The GP Champ? That bum owes me 10 tickets!" :)
Good luck this weekend! Here are a few other "tips" for you going to a first big paper event:
Only take what you need: You are going there to play, so only take what you need to play. Don't bother with a trade binder if you are there to play. Just take your deck, a pen & paper, a few dice for counters, and maybe a small amount of snacks. The less you have to worry about, the more you can concentrate on the game. (I picked up a smaller messenger bag just for events like this. Limited space to carry things and small enough to set comfortably on my lap while playing.)
If the TO has a seating app, download that ahead of time: Again, the less to worry about the day of, the better.
Count YOUR Deck Before You Present: If you know you presented 60 cards, it's harder for an opponent to try for a drop card cheat.
Count Your Opponents Deck Each Game: Keeps them honest too. Don't take forever, but make sure it's at least 60 cards each game.
Call Judges...A Lot: Don't be afraid to. You'd be surprised the odd rules disputes that might happen, so just raise the hand.
Stay Hydrated and eat if you can: I know you seem ok without it, but it's important for keeping your mind sharp. I like plain almonds as a snack since they don't leave a residue on the hands. A couple of those Quaker granola bars are nice as a sugary boost that can go down in a few bites.
Also, if you have the time and money, play in Friday grinders. I've found it helps take a little bit of the edge off and if you can win byes, that's great for your goal.
I'd love to see them do one MOCS season of Legacy and one of Vintage, giving out Rishadan Port and Misdirection as promos. Both cards are waaaay overpriced and both see relatively marginal play (and thus might actually be affected by a mocs promo printing). Giving out two promos of this value level would actually incentivize people to try for at least 15qp, which then might result in some small portion of those deciding to put together vintage or legacy decks to take a run at the title. It'd be a nice way to drum up a little interest in the format while simultaneously knocking down some overpriced cards.
Echo was pretty close to nil in this recording, I thought. except for one line i had to dub over. You have to compress the audio so its under 75mb to upload it to pure, maybe that affected it but it sounded waaay better than last weeks diterlizzi where i totally didnt use the microphone correctly.
Visions would so go in my monowhite commander decks
The mothership has stated after Origins they plan to implement foils in a new way online, to make them better and more appealing: something many, including myself, have complained about previously. They won't ever axe foils, because that's a huge defeat to admit to and because so many exist in the system anyway. If they achieve they goals and the playerbase is satisfied, then potentially foils will all go in price if they are made appealing, viable, and again collectible. So I guess we'll all see together. For me, since foils sell for less, so very often, i buy them regularly and just have the foil animation off. My machine handles it just fine.
I have some issues with reprinting. That is true :-) But it is always interesting to hear alternative viewpoints explained.
Getting rid of foils is an interesting idea. It is striking that it has become more and more common to see foils trade for less than the regular version.
Well I already know YOUR position on this Cauchy from your lengthy discussions on the mothership, so I am not surprised you don't want promos to be reprinted.
And I sympathize. I don't want cards to be utterly devalued either. Though I think there is some wiggle room between total economic meltdown and letting a few more people get their hands on the stuff.
Personally I am only incidentally a collector. Because cards have tend to have and retain value, I collect them but since the collection screen was obliterated in the transition to v4 I no longer really feel the need to admire the many cards I own as a collection.
Their worth to me is a) what I can sell them for or b) what decks I can use them in and very rarely indeed c) whom I can pawn them off on as gifts. (I am a cheapskate philanthropist at best. :p)
As for super rares... the problem is if you can't get them at any cost then no I think that's bad. If you can get them but they are expensive then that is fine with me. Hence a Black Lotus Promo would not bother me at all, but a 32x print run of a black lotus alt art only given to champions...that would bother me a little and if it were the ONLY copies then of course that would have been a disaster. (Glad they didn't go that route.)
That said, Vindicate is not super expensive anymore and probably never will be again. 99% of the reason it was in the first place was the low amount of Invasion block cards available (and that was a problem, imho.) Same with Deed, same with a lot of pretty decent cards that are no longer tournament relevant. On the same token because it is still playable and still sees some small play, Vindicate will hold some value no matter how many promos are released into the wilds.
BUT the foils which have most of the value are still super hard to get (if you care about that sort of thing.) Personally I'd be thrilled if they announced that "premium" cards were forever more a thing of the past. No more sets with them and no more promos with "foiling".
They are somewhat stylin' in paper but they are a joke online and terrible for play value (slowing down the games they are in even when the animations are off.) If your beef is with foil promos seeing print I hear that and concur. They should never be printed again.
Just out of curiousity, why do you think promos should be available? Or stated in another way, dont you think any card online should be super rare? I am fine with some cards being super rare online. If it does not limit the game play. So if they print a new promo Dirtcowl Wurm with unique art to hand out as a special prize for some event, then fine with me. But if Black Lotus was only available if you won player of the year then that would be sad. Having some cards being super rare for example in a promo version gives a little flavour of the paper collectable aspect (for me).
Some might think Vindicate not so good because of the fact that it sees very little play but I love the fact that they put it out again. Promos should be available not ultra rare imho. Glad to see Path getting another spin around too...sold all of mine so I probably won't be getting these (because I doubt the price will drop much while modern is in "season" but if it does I may pick up a set.
I agree, seeing visions (from the dark?!? :P boy what an aptly named card :P) online would be groovy but mainly for the art. There is plenty of art that is only in paper and it would be nice to see them make their way online.
Anyway sounded good today fellas but Adam you need to work on the echo chamber effect. I suspect it is your distance to your mic that is making it do that.
Oh yeah not surprising that people hate on Owen. Superb player with a kind of rude New Jersey attitude (or so I've heard). A lot of the east coast players have that edgy quality. Some are quite surprisingly nice though and I suspect when he isn't making snide tweets about "bad plays" he probably isn't too mean.
I agree that intimate/fear/landwalk would often cause frustrating losses and other times be irrelevant. I'd rather have them keep shroud instead of hexproof but as long as they are careful, it shouldn't be a huge problem.
Protection is another story. Yes, sometimes it is the same as intimate/fear/landwalk but it's also interesting to have, especially for constructed play. If it isn't abused, it can be very useful and should be avoided in commons but used on uncommons, rares and mythics being more relevant in constructed than in limited.
This is one of those interesting areas where information is available, but not widely spread.
On his blog, Mark Rosewater has been talking for a while about how landwalk and intimidate were problem mechanics that they would like to find a better replacement for.
The issue is that it's a mechanic with huge variance, a high ceiling, and a very low floor. To phrase this differently, the ability ranged from making a creature unblockable and impossible to deal with if you lack removal, to meaningless, may as well not be written on the card. What's worse, it was completely random which way it was going to work for you in any given match you play it.
It's hard to balance costs on a card that is either a serious threat or simply a vanilla creature based on essentially the roll of a die at the start of the match.
Not excited about these changes to the Evergreen mechanics. I didn't have a problem with any of those. I'm especially surprised to see Intimidate going away. I also don't love that Prowess is going to be an Evergreen. Think they missed the boat on this one pretty badly.
Hey Joe, as always, that was a fantastic article; I especially enjoyed your interview with Roland and your closing monologue, as well as your support of a Dig Through Time restriction and your reasons for it, which seem very logical. The only difference of opinion I have with your monologue is that I think the way to tell/show people that Vintage can be accessible is, instead of offering less powerful decks which aren't as competitive and aren't on the same level as top-tier decks is to introduce them to proxies, inform them that proxy tournaments are standard, (no pun intended) and show them that playing on MTGO is much cheaper than paper Vintage, or even free if they play on an MTGO alternative, such as Untap.in. Thank you for being a tenacious advocate for the Vintage community, Joe!!
Sadly the meta tag redirect "bug" is back on WOTC's site so reading up on Maro's article isn't going to happen for me.
[Edit] Changster emailed me to change his pick for an addition to the restricted list to "Dig Through Time", but I was so busy moving this week, I forgot to check my email. Dig is likely to go though, I think that it's proven how abusive it can be. I know that I've had plenty of games where the entire grind-fest came down to who could peel a Dig Through Time off the top first!
Thanks again, to @Rolandmtg, and @Dbatterskull for talking about Angel City with me!
Hardened scales: I always thought this card was underplayed, under-brewed, and under-valued. I hope to see it rise in Modern
Hardened Scales+Steel Overseer is neat.
It seems like a roundabout Tempered Steel if you are trying to go wide.
Still, cheaper and easier to cast is better for the deck overall..
Thanks for the comment. It's true that Ravager and Cranial Plating are not the most synergistic combination.
I really Hardened Scales and would like to try and brew with it in Modern. MadKat's Allies deck looked sweet as does your +1/+1 counter-centric Affinity deck. Might have to give something like this a try. Steel Overseer seems nuts with a Scales in play.
Some very interesting lists. Blink Riders is a deck I've never seen before and looks very cool.
The Lantern is something I've seen before but never tried as I imagined it would be a nightmare to play on MTGO. Congrats to Zac though for piloting it so well.
I quite want to try out Dragonlord Ojutai in Modern but it's a bit too expensive for me at the moment.
If you really wanted to you could instead play 1-2 Stomping Ground and more fetchlands in their place. You only ever really need the one Stomping Ground so the rest of the fetches and find Forest instead.
Thank you sir, I was going to write about something completely different, started on that and then just snowballed into this.
I want to show off the cool things that people can do, and while cool, the lantern deck is extremely difficult to play correctly, and to do so while keeping enough time on your clock I believe. I do not think it will see a ton of play on MTGO, but I could be wrong.
I also think the mtgo modern metagame is responding to the rise in Grixis already with more burn, and that makes me super sad.
I can't stomach that lantern control deck! Can you imagine that deck getting popular enough to face mirrors all day?
That said, I played a deck based on null brooch and ensnaring bridge at VT states in 1998 or 99. I used cursed scroll as a win con.
Good article man. Makes me want to play Modern again, with Tron though.
The game should be over before they have a chance to cast creeping corrosion. That being said, I find cranial plating mostly to be a non-bo with ravager. I don't have the Opals yet either, but I am liking Hardened Scales instead of Plating.
This is my Current List :
Creatures
1 x Triskelion
3 x Ornithopter
4 x Steel Overseer
3 x Memnite
4 x Etched Champion
4 x Arcbound Ravager
4 x Chronomaton
Spells
4 x Springleaf Drum
4 x Hardened Scales
3 x Chromatic Star
4 x Thoughtcast
4 x Galvanic Blast
Land
4 x Blinkmoth Nexus
3 x Darksteel Citadel
4 x Inkmoth Nexus
4 x Glimmervoid
1 x Wooded Foothills
1 x Forest
1 x Mountain
Sideboard
1x Dismember
3x Path to Exile
2x Torpor Orb
4x Whipflare
1x Steel Hellkite
4x Corrosive Gale
That's lame that the Mirrodin drafts are phantom only. I was looking forward to drafting all the $9 Serum Visions.
BOOOOOOO. :(
very good analysis in the good and bad of mm2. The only thing i don't agree is the end part of the negative where kitesail seems to be a bad card because it actually won me my game a lot of times.
I want you to crush this event so I can say "The GP Champ? That bum owes me 10 tickets!" :)
Good luck this weekend! Here are a few other "tips" for you going to a first big paper event:
Only take what you need: You are going there to play, so only take what you need to play. Don't bother with a trade binder if you are there to play. Just take your deck, a pen & paper, a few dice for counters, and maybe a small amount of snacks. The less you have to worry about, the more you can concentrate on the game. (I picked up a smaller messenger bag just for events like this. Limited space to carry things and small enough to set comfortably on my lap while playing.)
If the TO has a seating app, download that ahead of time: Again, the less to worry about the day of, the better.
Count YOUR Deck Before You Present: If you know you presented 60 cards, it's harder for an opponent to try for a drop card cheat.
Count Your Opponents Deck Each Game: Keeps them honest too. Don't take forever, but make sure it's at least 60 cards each game.
Call Judges...A Lot: Don't be afraid to. You'd be surprised the odd rules disputes that might happen, so just raise the hand.
Stay Hydrated and eat if you can: I know you seem ok without it, but it's important for keeping your mind sharp. I like plain almonds as a snack since they don't leave a residue on the hands. A couple of those Quaker granola bars are nice as a sugary boost that can go down in a few bites.
Also, if you have the time and money, play in Friday grinders. I've found it helps take a little bit of the edge off and if you can win byes, that's great for your goal.
Don't forget to have fun too.
Go get'em.
- Gio
I'd love to see them do one MOCS season of Legacy and one of Vintage, giving out Rishadan Port and Misdirection as promos. Both cards are waaaay overpriced and both see relatively marginal play (and thus might actually be affected by a mocs promo printing). Giving out two promos of this value level would actually incentivize people to try for at least 15qp, which then might result in some small portion of those deciding to put together vintage or legacy decks to take a run at the title. It'd be a nice way to drum up a little interest in the format while simultaneously knocking down some overpriced cards.
There's usually one MOCS season that is Legacy. I hope to see one Vintage one day as well.