I think the socialization in Tribal Apocalypse mostly happens in the #TRIBAL room. During the games, there's also the issue of not wanting to lose clock, and secondarily to make everyone else waits if you're the last match running. But the PRE rooms are different from both the chaos of the old generic rooms, and the one-on-one situation from some random guy you challenged to a single game.
Of course, this doesn't account for bad luck, both in what kind of deck you're being asked to endure (I'm not equaling socialization with relaxed play; it can also be done while destroying each other's faces with spells), and the occasional not very social opponent, which maybe he's just, say, some very tired Asian player who's entered a Euro-friendly event at late night. (I'm glad my events typically allow for a very large span of time zones. I remember a wonderful Commander table where the 4 players were from 4 different continents: Brazil, USA, Croatia, Taiwan, spanning something like FOURTEEN different time zones.)
By the way, you may be American, but you're not that ugly! :)
You've got sweet Lizard deck, Paul. Call the Bloodline is a very cool card and I'm glad someone plays it. I have it in Standard Delirium and no one believes me how good the card is.^_~. Sprouting Thrinax is also a card I always wanted to abuse somehow (finally realized that those creatures are Lizards..ehm..should have been asleep already). Have you considered playing Golgari Brownscale? It sounds interesting. It's green so you can sac it to Natural Order, it can gain you some life and mills. With Living Death it sounds ok. I'd even play the 1/1 deathtouch lizard. But maybe Khalni Garden is enough. I still don't know much about the format but this deck certainly can be very fun.
Thanks for the games, guys!
Nice podcast. If it would just contain a little bit more of positive information...regarding the client and special sets...
Very interesting opinion section. Being from a region that's yet to be inspiration to any Magic setting (and no, WotC, Naya isn't South American - it's Mesoamerican, which is quite different), I obviously can't say for sure how I would feel personally. My best guess is that I'd be thrilled, to be honest, even if that meant I'd have to deal with a couple of stupid-sounding names.
As for the Daretti problem you raise, is that really a problem? I mean, I've know a few Lilianas in my life; Jace is usually a nickname for Jason; Gerrard is a common French male name; and Serra is a surname that's pretty common in my country (and it's of Italian origin, if I'm not mistaken). In fact, if they ever decide to do a block inspired by South American / Brazilian / Hispanic culture, here's hoping there's a Ricardo in there somewhere! (Although yeah, I don't think that sounds fantasy-y enough.)
Either way, great job with the article. I second Paul Leicht in his opinion that this was the best replacement yet.
Best SotP so far since Pete's been away. And that's saying a lot imho. I do have a quibble though about the socialization comment. One of the things that REALLY set me off the last time I played the Apoc a few years ago was my opponents basically blanking me while playing a horribly non-interactive fast combo deck. One is hard to take, both together were like fire to my oil. No excuse on my part for being a firebrand but imho this IS a major problem with the client AND with the PRES too sometimes. I do appreciate that despite the relatively not-small obstacles the PRES are still around and going strong (without even a forum homebase, thanks to WOTC pulling that rug out from under). Thanks for doing what you do. I still look forward to Pete's return but this was a high quality replacement.
As to cultural appropriation, this is something that happens with creative story telling and while I think it is a bit of a crutch, I think it lends verisimilitude to the experience of these stories. Is it somewhat insulting to have one's culture subsumed into a fantasy story involving a game mainly played by ugly Americans? Maybe but I don't really think it is enough to be upset about. There are so many real world problems facing us, that this kind of gripe seems petty from my perspective. I say that as an Ugly American though so maybe my opinion on this doesn't matter so much. Dismissing a gripe because it seems unimportant is certainly arrogant. And that isn't my desire. My desire is to see people rise above and enjoy the good things.
I'll second the PRE environment social quality comment! I had long discussions when I was playing in them frequently, and often received very good advice about my decks (particularly when I was just starting Commander).
It's not win-period, far from it. If that was the case, I would fetch Primeval Titan every time I use Natural Order (and wouldn't even bother with other targets), but that is not the case. There are lot's of situations when I can't wait to risk 2 turns to *possibly* strike for lethal. Now, whenever I decide to fetch Primeval Titan into Dark Depths, I almost always win as a result of that. But I think in those situations (relatively stable board state, not behind a lot), Titan into any 2 good lands creates such an advantage that the win percentage without DD wouldn't be much different (that's talking about this particular kind of deck, where excess mana is very important and usable).
There are other situations where Atarka is basically 100% win, or Hornet Queen, or Woodfall Primus is basically 100% win. And, yeah, there are situations where nothing will really help you. I usually go for Primeval Titan, because I am often in good enough shape that I can afford it, and that would be my choice even if DD was banned.
Now, let me repeat that I don't really object to banning Dark Depths. I can appreciate your point about perception players might have about it, especially if it becomes more prominent. Natural Order is powerful enough, but when it follows by another combo it might piss off the opponent too much. Still, I believe that whenever I decide to go for Primeval Titan, I would have a very similiar win percentage with other lands.
Even with what Kuma said, I would lean toward NO being the bigger issue. But the problem with that is, once you remove NO from the equation you will still have many other ways to cheat the combo into play. The question really comes down to this: What is the acceptable level of broken? What is too stupid to allow? Which cards enable the unacceptable and stupid? Ban those cards. I still like your idea of banning Dark Depths to Avatars only.
"What are the strategies that DD+TS keeps in check and other NO options wouldn't?"
That's the wrong question. The right question is what are the strategies that DD+TS keeps in check that wouldn't have to worry if the combo didn't exist. One is overreliance on Moat and Wrath effects. Another is keeping a Force of Will deck impotent. Another is forcing mono-red (or even Elves) to ask itself if it's fast enough since it can't stop the Avatar with normal options (though those decks should play more Wastelands). If it thinks it can't handle DD, playing mono-red is purely a metagame strategy, then, and not a, per se, Tier-1 choice.
The combo definitely makes other decks second-guess themselves (or should) and that is a good thing.
This is a bad mischaracterization. Titan into Dark Depths is NOT win right now. It is win 2 turns from now. At the end of your next turn you can activate it, and the following turn you can attack - in an ideal world - for lethal. Yes, it's also win-more since your chances of winning without the combo are already high (Titan, Dragonlord, Wurm, etc.). Miha thinks it's worthwhile to include the lone copies of each land, despite them causing potential mulligans on otherwise keepable hands. It strikes me as a close call overall, but I think Miha's ultimately right, that it's worth the risk. Ask Miha how many games he won on the back of the DD combo alone though - I doubt it's very high. If Titan into DD is 99% as you say (too high?), Titan into the X+trample land is likely very close behind.
Also, there are very playable answers in StP, Repeal, and Wasteland, even weird stuff like Bitterblossom. I agree with AJ, NO is your bigger problem (by far).
I think the increased access will only result in a lot of headaches for everyone. As we've seen, miha's deck is already being copy-pasted, and that's a good indicator of something passing from "rarely seen enough not to worry about it" to "people will start gathering with torches and pitchforks".
What are the strategies that DD+TS keeps in check and other NO options wouldn't?
I don't think this analysis is correct. It's not win-more with Primeval Titan, it's win-period (or very close to it). While other land combinations don't guarantee much, with Dark Depths+Thespian's Stage the result is: you either have a removal RIGHT NOW, or it's game over. And if you do have that removal, then the Titan will still be there (potentially fetching the combo again, if you have multiple instances in the deck). So that's NO actually fetching TWO big scary creatures.
Whereas, sure, once you have Natural Order-ed something worth of it, you're typically ahead. But I've been using NO since the beginning of Tribal Apocalypse, and the times when you still can't win after resolving it aren't few. Even Progenitus makes for a slower clock than Dark Depths, and we banned Progenitus outside of its tribes, so that should be already rationale enough to reconsider Dark Depths' presence.
And the point in my "too easy" line was: let's use NO in ways that are powerful but not 99% wins. Let's fetch Dragonlord Atarka or what have you. The opponent will be worried but won't feel like you just pushed the "I win" button. In NO decks, Dark Depths+Thespian's Stage becomes the go-to, and that to me removes a lot of variance and fun, turning it into a combo where it always happens the same thing over and over again both for the player and the opponent.
I admit that sometimes Comeuppance under-performs, but it also often over-performs (a blowout!). I remember fondly many times in chainsaw tournaments when it has functioned as a one-sided Wrath effect (or almost one). Also, I cannot forget when ML_Berlin ticked up the Shrine of Burning Rage to 18 counters, then sacrificed it for 18 points of damage to the face. (Thanks to Comeuppance, that was ML_Berlin's face!).
I also like siding it in against Red Deck Wins players. It can either wipe out most of their board, or alternatively save you from a burn spell, as the need dictates.
Michelle showed me Comeuppance! It's very situational but no one expects you to play it , some players even have to read it when I cast it.
Eternal Witness is one of the reasons to play green. In the late game, it's almost a tutor with a 12 card graveyard. Turn 4, it can help you hit your land drop. When I GSZ, 75% of the time it is for Goyf-Witness-Thragtusk-Prime Time
Anafenza, the Foremost – She is indeed amazing but she only gets played in this deck. Not my other 9 shard/wedge decks so I sold her.
Dark Confidant- I don’t think it belongs in a Primeval deck
Grim Flayer- Great especially with Lingering Souls and Tarmogoyf. I’ll buy it when it rotates out of Standard.
Restoration Angel/ScOoze - I’ll buy it if I come across an extra hundred tix or three
38 Creatures
1 Acidic Slime – I think each and every green deck needs slime and Reclamation sage. Most players have Swords of X&Y, some have stuff like Worship or Moat. Slime will even kill Maze of Ith.
1 Archangel Avacyn
1 Baneslayer Angel – very cuttable due to no ETB/death trigger.
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Conclave Naturalists – Maybe you can cut this but I’ve considered adding Indrik Stomphowler
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Deathmist Raptor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Den Protector – I think every green deck should have this
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Eternal Witness
1 Exalted Angel
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Hangarback Walker – Great with Ranger of Eos/Voice of Zendikar/Ally of Zendikar
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Obstinate Baloth – You guessed it: every green deck should have this. Good versus discard and RDW
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Primeval Titan
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Shriekmaw
1 Siege Rhino
1 Lotus cobra
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Thragtusk
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Tombstalker
1 Warden of the First Tree
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege – Not the greatest but I like the card and it doesn’t go as well in my Bant/Naya decks
25 Spells
1 Liliana Vess
1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Council's Judgment
1 Decree of Justice – Great versus control
1 Duress
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nature's Lore – “One mana” search for a dual
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Path to Exile
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad – Both Sorins are great
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tainted Pact
1 Thoughtseize
1 Three Visits
1 Vindicate
SIDEBOARD (15 Cards)
1 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Sin Collector
1 Wall of Reverence
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Lifebane Zombie
1 Great Sable Stag
1 Celestial Purge
1 Castigate
1 Choke – This card can win games on its own
1 Comeuppance
1 Genesis
1 Deathmark
1 Black Vise
Agreed. I really like the Masterpieces. The cards I do not really approve of their art are these...
Chrome Mox
Crucible of Worlds
Aether Vial
Mox Opal
Sword of Light and Shadow
Sword of Fire and Ice
Not that I wouldn't like the illustrations but I cannot see the card it is supposed to be. An ice blade with some kind of flamethrower attached to it would be fine^_^
With one exception perhaps. What did you think about the art of the Masterpiece version of Sword of Fire and Ice? Am I the only one thinking it is distinctly.....oh I don't know....un-swordy like? A total fail? I wonder who approved that design. In my opinion, it was a lost opportunity to see a beautiful new sword, with the Kaladeshi aether element appearing on the "ice" side of the sword, and some beautiful Kaladeshi fire on the other side of the sword.
At the moment, there is a risk that you see the art, get confused, then feel uncomfortable and decide to put it down and leave the damn thing alone, because you have seen enough of what an ANVIL's wildest fantasy is.
I think Dark Confidant is fine in my deck. You know Bob Tendrils running Dark Confidants and Blightsteel Colossus was a thing in Vintage. Occasionally you'd get hit by Blighsteel Colossus but it was worth it anyway. Here it is a bit similar. My deck is fine running Dark Confidant, I will just sometimes die to Titan showing up at wrong moment. In your deck it would be a suicide though^_^.
I sold my Obstinate Baloths in January because 7 tix per one seemed as a good deal. It is time that I buy that back...I overlook this card very often but you are right about it. It is a very solid card. But it will be my first time actually playing it in 100CS (if I buy it. but I should sell Anafenzas since it still costs something and does not even see play, if I manage to log in though because I couldn't yesterday).
I'm not convinced about Den Protector. Even in a Delirium deck I play in Standard now the card is pretty bad actually no matter how cool it sounds. It costs way to much mana for me (even though I managed to draw 6 lands in a row in the past two events...). Even Eternal Witness is on the list of cards to cut (considering Midrange decks I usually play) for few years already but in this deck she's totally fine.
Comeuppance is a funny card^_^. One of the cards I always wanted to try. But I will most probably just stick with Parallax Wave.
Thx for the highlight^_^ It was nice listening to your opinions about the cards from a different perspective than I hear every day. You made me actually like some of the Kaladesh cards.
(BTW. My nickname is actually S'Tsung (screename stsung, game tag STS or STSU). You read the S first and then Tsung)
Because it's me, when I read your question about Stomping Ground expeditions versus Taigas, I instantly thought you can get a reasonable answer to that question. We actually can calculate the number of Taigas in existence reasonably well. Here are the print run totals for sets with Taiga:
Alpha - 2.6 million
Beta - 7.8 million
Unlimited - 40 million
Revised - 600 million
Take Alpha--is has 74 commons, 95 uncommons and 116 rares. For simplicity, assume it was only in 15 card boosters, 11 common, 3 uncommon, 1 rare. So rares make up 1/15 of 2.6 million, and Taiga makes up 1/116 of that. Meaning, there are about 1500 Alpha Taigas that exist. Roughly 4500 Beta Taigas. Roughly 23,000 Unlimited Taigas. Roughly 331,000 Revised Taigas. Grand total: 360,000 Taigas.
Now, calculating the Stomping Ground Expedition is a completely different issue. Wizards hasn't released print run sizes since the Dark days (pun always intended). However, we know that at least since Mirrodin, MTG has continued high growth. We also know that sets continued to get bigger until Chronicles was vastly overprinted. We know that a Stomping Ground is 1 in 54000 BfZ cards (1 in 144 packs, 1 in 25 expeditions,1 slot per pack). So the question is, was the BFZ print run more than 20 billion, or 1.3 billion packs? That would be around $2 billion in sales (assuming $2/pack wholesale), which if normal business rules apply would mean about $200 million in profit. Hasbro's quarterly report showed their games section, of which Magic is the anchor brand, was $235 million. One estimate had Magic's revenue at $250 million for 2013. About 1/3 of that is MTGO. Given growth since 2013, and a severe lack of specific numbers, it is entirely reasonable that there are about the same number of Stomping Ground Expeditions as there are Taigas. Just a reminder, I used a lot of guessimations here.
My deck needs some tweaking but certainly less than my 4c Blood deck (I will eventually buy the cards I want to play) or UWb Control deck. I used to play 4c or 5c so it was a nice change. Two years ago I did not find enough cards to fit in my deck in those colors but in those two years many strong cards were printed so Junk is fine^_^. (EDIT: I did, but then the deck was more of a hatebear deck rather than midrange and I don't plan to play that kind of a deck)
I'd like to focus on my control deck though for next time (I don't have much time though now). Last time I looked at it I couldn't even understand how I could play with it. It's a pile of random cards, hehe.
Wow, thank you! It really means a lot to me.
I think the socialization in Tribal Apocalypse mostly happens in the #TRIBAL room. During the games, there's also the issue of not wanting to lose clock, and secondarily to make everyone else waits if you're the last match running. But the PRE rooms are different from both the chaos of the old generic rooms, and the one-on-one situation from some random guy you challenged to a single game.
Of course, this doesn't account for bad luck, both in what kind of deck you're being asked to endure (I'm not equaling socialization with relaxed play; it can also be done while destroying each other's faces with spells), and the occasional not very social opponent, which maybe he's just, say, some very tired Asian player who's entered a Euro-friendly event at late night. (I'm glad my events typically allow for a very large span of time zones. I remember a wonderful Commander table where the 4 players were from 4 different continents: Brazil, USA, Croatia, Taiwan, spanning something like FOURTEEN different time zones.)
By the way, you may be American, but you're not that ugly! :)
You've got sweet Lizard deck, Paul. Call the Bloodline is a very cool card and I'm glad someone plays it. I have it in Standard Delirium and no one believes me how good the card is.^_~. Sprouting Thrinax is also a card I always wanted to abuse somehow (finally realized that those creatures are Lizards..ehm..should have been asleep already). Have you considered playing Golgari Brownscale? It sounds interesting. It's green so you can sac it to Natural Order, it can gain you some life and mills. With Living Death it sounds ok. I'd even play the 1/1 deathtouch lizard. But maybe Khalni Garden is enough. I still don't know much about the format but this deck certainly can be very fun.
Thanks for the games, guys!
Nice podcast. If it would just contain a little bit more of positive information...regarding the client and special sets...
Very interesting opinion section. Being from a region that's yet to be inspiration to any Magic setting (and no, WotC, Naya isn't South American - it's Mesoamerican, which is quite different), I obviously can't say for sure how I would feel personally. My best guess is that I'd be thrilled, to be honest, even if that meant I'd have to deal with a couple of stupid-sounding names.
As for the Daretti problem you raise, is that really a problem? I mean, I've know a few Lilianas in my life; Jace is usually a nickname for Jason; Gerrard is a common French male name; and Serra is a surname that's pretty common in my country (and it's of Italian origin, if I'm not mistaken). In fact, if they ever decide to do a block inspired by South American / Brazilian / Hispanic culture, here's hoping there's a Ricardo in there somewhere! (Although yeah, I don't think that sounds fantasy-y enough.)
Either way, great job with the article. I second Paul Leicht in his opinion that this was the best replacement yet.
Best SotP so far since Pete's been away. And that's saying a lot imho. I do have a quibble though about the socialization comment. One of the things that REALLY set me off the last time I played the Apoc a few years ago was my opponents basically blanking me while playing a horribly non-interactive fast combo deck. One is hard to take, both together were like fire to my oil. No excuse on my part for being a firebrand but imho this IS a major problem with the client AND with the PRES too sometimes. I do appreciate that despite the relatively not-small obstacles the PRES are still around and going strong (without even a forum homebase, thanks to WOTC pulling that rug out from under). Thanks for doing what you do. I still look forward to Pete's return but this was a high quality replacement.
As to cultural appropriation, this is something that happens with creative story telling and while I think it is a bit of a crutch, I think it lends verisimilitude to the experience of these stories. Is it somewhat insulting to have one's culture subsumed into a fantasy story involving a game mainly played by ugly Americans? Maybe but I don't really think it is enough to be upset about. There are so many real world problems facing us, that this kind of gripe seems petty from my perspective. I say that as an Ugly American though so maybe my opinion on this doesn't matter so much. Dismissing a gripe because it seems unimportant is certainly arrogant. And that isn't my desire. My desire is to see people rise above and enjoy the good things.
I'll second the PRE environment social quality comment! I had long discussions when I was playing in them frequently, and often received very good advice about my decks (particularly when I was just starting Commander).
It's not win-period, far from it. If that was the case, I would fetch Primeval Titan every time I use Natural Order (and wouldn't even bother with other targets), but that is not the case. There are lot's of situations when I can't wait to risk 2 turns to *possibly* strike for lethal. Now, whenever I decide to fetch Primeval Titan into Dark Depths, I almost always win as a result of that. But I think in those situations (relatively stable board state, not behind a lot), Titan into any 2 good lands creates such an advantage that the win percentage without DD wouldn't be much different (that's talking about this particular kind of deck, where excess mana is very important and usable).
There are other situations where Atarka is basically 100% win, or Hornet Queen, or Woodfall Primus is basically 100% win. And, yeah, there are situations where nothing will really help you. I usually go for Primeval Titan, because I am often in good enough shape that I can afford it, and that would be my choice even if DD was banned.
Now, let me repeat that I don't really object to banning Dark Depths. I can appreciate your point about perception players might have about it, especially if it becomes more prominent. Natural Order is powerful enough, but when it follows by another combo it might piss off the opponent too much. Still, I believe that whenever I decide to go for Primeval Titan, I would have a very similiar win percentage with other lands.
Even with what Kuma said, I would lean toward NO being the bigger issue. But the problem with that is, once you remove NO from the equation you will still have many other ways to cheat the combo into play. The question really comes down to this: What is the acceptable level of broken? What is too stupid to allow? Which cards enable the unacceptable and stupid? Ban those cards. I still like your idea of banning Dark Depths to Avatars only.
"What are the strategies that DD+TS keeps in check and other NO options wouldn't?"
That's the wrong question. The right question is what are the strategies that DD+TS keeps in check that wouldn't have to worry if the combo didn't exist. One is overreliance on Moat and Wrath effects. Another is keeping a Force of Will deck impotent. Another is forcing mono-red (or even Elves) to ask itself if it's fast enough since it can't stop the Avatar with normal options (though those decks should play more Wastelands). If it thinks it can't handle DD, playing mono-red is purely a metagame strategy, then, and not a, per se, Tier-1 choice.
The combo definitely makes other decks second-guess themselves (or should) and that is a good thing.
This is a bad mischaracterization. Titan into Dark Depths is NOT win right now. It is win 2 turns from now. At the end of your next turn you can activate it, and the following turn you can attack - in an ideal world - for lethal. Yes, it's also win-more since your chances of winning without the combo are already high (Titan, Dragonlord, Wurm, etc.). Miha thinks it's worthwhile to include the lone copies of each land, despite them causing potential mulligans on otherwise keepable hands. It strikes me as a close call overall, but I think Miha's ultimately right, that it's worth the risk. Ask Miha how many games he won on the back of the DD combo alone though - I doubt it's very high. If Titan into DD is 99% as you say (too high?), Titan into the X+trample land is likely very close behind.
Also, there are very playable answers in StP, Repeal, and Wasteland, even weird stuff like Bitterblossom. I agree with AJ, NO is your bigger problem (by far).
Reading this, I can't help but ask, Is Dark Depths the problem here, or Natural Order?
I think the increased access will only result in a lot of headaches for everyone. As we've seen, miha's deck is already being copy-pasted, and that's a good indicator of something passing from "rarely seen enough not to worry about it" to "people will start gathering with torches and pitchforks".
What are the strategies that DD+TS keeps in check and other NO options wouldn't?
I don't think this analysis is correct. It's not win-more with Primeval Titan, it's win-period (or very close to it). While other land combinations don't guarantee much, with Dark Depths+Thespian's Stage the result is: you either have a removal RIGHT NOW, or it's game over. And if you do have that removal, then the Titan will still be there (potentially fetching the combo again, if you have multiple instances in the deck). So that's NO actually fetching TWO big scary creatures.
Whereas, sure, once you have Natural Order-ed something worth of it, you're typically ahead. But I've been using NO since the beginning of Tribal Apocalypse, and the times when you still can't win after resolving it aren't few. Even Progenitus makes for a slower clock than Dark Depths, and we banned Progenitus outside of its tribes, so that should be already rationale enough to reconsider Dark Depths' presence.
And the point in my "too easy" line was: let's use NO in ways that are powerful but not 99% wins. Let's fetch Dragonlord Atarka or what have you. The opponent will be worried but won't feel like you just pushed the "I win" button. In NO decks, Dark Depths+Thespian's Stage becomes the go-to, and that to me removes a lot of variance and fun, turning it into a combo where it always happens the same thing over and over again both for the player and the opponent.
Unfortunately, a land doesn't have the types of the token it creates. :)
Comeuppance is definitely a great card.
I like Comeuppance. :)
I admit that sometimes Comeuppance under-performs, but it also often over-performs (a blowout!). I remember fondly many times in chainsaw tournaments when it has functioned as a one-sided Wrath effect (or almost one). Also, I cannot forget when ML_Berlin ticked up the Shrine of Burning Rage to 18 counters, then sacrificed it for 18 points of damage to the face. (Thanks to Comeuppance, that was ML_Berlin's face!).
I also like siding it in against Red Deck Wins players. It can either wipe out most of their board, or alternatively save you from a burn spell, as the need dictates.
Michelle showed me Comeuppance! It's very situational but no one expects you to play it , some players even have to read it when I cast it.
Eternal Witness is one of the reasons to play green. In the late game, it's almost a tutor with a 12 card graveyard. Turn 4, it can help you hit your land drop. When I GSZ, 75% of the time it is for Goyf-Witness-Thragtusk-Prime Time
Anafenza, the Foremost – She is indeed amazing but she only gets played in this deck. Not my other 9 shard/wedge decks so I sold her.
Dark Confidant- I don’t think it belongs in a Primeval deck
Grim Flayer- Great especially with Lingering Souls and Tarmogoyf. I’ll buy it when it rotates out of Standard.
Restoration Angel/ScOoze - I’ll buy it if I come across an extra hundred tix or three
38 Creatures
1 Acidic Slime – I think each and every green deck needs slime and Reclamation sage. Most players have Swords of X&Y, some have stuff like Worship or Moat. Slime will even kill Maze of Ith.
1 Archangel Avacyn
1 Baneslayer Angel – very cuttable due to no ETB/death trigger.
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Conclave Naturalists – Maybe you can cut this but I’ve considered adding Indrik Stomphowler
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Deathmist Raptor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Den Protector – I think every green deck should have this
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Eternal Witness
1 Exalted Angel
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Hangarback Walker – Great with Ranger of Eos/Voice of Zendikar/Ally of Zendikar
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Obstinate Baloth – You guessed it: every green deck should have this. Good versus discard and RDW
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Primeval Titan
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Shriekmaw
1 Siege Rhino
1 Lotus cobra
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Thragtusk
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Tombstalker
1 Warden of the First Tree
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege – Not the greatest but I like the card and it doesn’t go as well in my Bant/Naya decks
25 Spells
1 Liliana Vess
1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Council's Judgment
1 Decree of Justice – Great versus control
1 Duress
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nature's Lore – “One mana” search for a dual
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Path to Exile
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad – Both Sorins are great
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tainted Pact
1 Thoughtseize
1 Three Visits
1 Vindicate
38 Lands
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Canopy Vista
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hissing Quagmire
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Karakas
1 Krosan Verge
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Shambling Vent
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Woodland Cemetery
SIDEBOARD (15 Cards)
1 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Sin Collector
1 Wall of Reverence
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Lifebane Zombie
1 Great Sable Stag
1 Celestial Purge
1 Castigate
1 Choke – This card can win games on its own
1 Comeuppance
1 Genesis
1 Deathmark
1 Black Vise
Agreed. I really like the Masterpieces. The cards I do not really approve of their art are these...
Chrome Mox
Crucible of Worlds
Aether Vial
Mox Opal
Sword of Light and Shadow
Sword of Fire and Ice
Not that I wouldn't like the illustrations but I cannot see the card it is supposed to be. An ice blade with some kind of flamethrower attached to it would be fine^_^
Nice podcast, I enjoyed listening to it.
The new art on the masterpiece is beautiful.
With one exception perhaps. What did you think about the art of the Masterpiece version of Sword of Fire and Ice? Am I the only one thinking it is distinctly.....oh I don't know....un-swordy like? A total fail? I wonder who approved that design. In my opinion, it was a lost opportunity to see a beautiful new sword, with the Kaladeshi aether element appearing on the "ice" side of the sword, and some beautiful Kaladeshi fire on the other side of the sword.
At the moment, there is a risk that you see the art, get confused, then feel uncomfortable and decide to put it down and leave the damn thing alone, because you have seen enough of what an ANVIL's wildest fantasy is.
I think Dark Confidant is fine in my deck. You know Bob Tendrils running Dark Confidants and Blightsteel Colossus was a thing in Vintage. Occasionally you'd get hit by Blighsteel Colossus but it was worth it anyway. Here it is a bit similar. My deck is fine running Dark Confidant, I will just sometimes die to Titan showing up at wrong moment. In your deck it would be a suicide though^_^.
I sold my Obstinate Baloths in January because 7 tix per one seemed as a good deal. It is time that I buy that back...I overlook this card very often but you are right about it. It is a very solid card. But it will be my first time actually playing it in 100CS (if I buy it. but I should sell Anafenzas since it still costs something and does not even see play, if I manage to log in though because I couldn't yesterday).
I'm not convinced about Den Protector. Even in a Delirium deck I play in Standard now the card is pretty bad actually no matter how cool it sounds. It costs way to much mana for me (even though I managed to draw 6 lands in a row in the past two events...). Even Eternal Witness is on the list of cards to cut (considering Midrange decks I usually play) for few years already but in this deck she's totally fine.
Comeuppance is a funny card^_^. One of the cards I always wanted to try. But I will most probably just stick with Parallax Wave.
Thx for the highlight^_^ It was nice listening to your opinions about the cards from a different perspective than I hear every day. You made me actually like some of the Kaladesh cards.
(BTW. My nickname is actually S'Tsung (screename stsung, game tag STS or STSU). You read the S first and then Tsung)
Thanks for the calculations--I knew you could estimate the number of Taigas, but I just didn't want to do the legwork :p
Because it's me, when I read your question about Stomping Ground expeditions versus Taigas, I instantly thought you can get a reasonable answer to that question. We actually can calculate the number of Taigas in existence reasonably well. Here are the print run totals for sets with Taiga:
Alpha - 2.6 million
Beta - 7.8 million
Unlimited - 40 million
Revised - 600 million
Take Alpha--is has 74 commons, 95 uncommons and 116 rares. For simplicity, assume it was only in 15 card boosters, 11 common, 3 uncommon, 1 rare. So rares make up 1/15 of 2.6 million, and Taiga makes up 1/116 of that. Meaning, there are about 1500 Alpha Taigas that exist. Roughly 4500 Beta Taigas. Roughly 23,000 Unlimited Taigas. Roughly 331,000 Revised Taigas. Grand total: 360,000 Taigas.
Now, calculating the Stomping Ground Expedition is a completely different issue. Wizards hasn't released print run sizes since the Dark days (pun always intended). However, we know that at least since Mirrodin, MTG has continued high growth. We also know that sets continued to get bigger until Chronicles was vastly overprinted. We know that a Stomping Ground is 1 in 54000 BfZ cards (1 in 144 packs, 1 in 25 expeditions,1 slot per pack). So the question is, was the BFZ print run more than 20 billion, or 1.3 billion packs? That would be around $2 billion in sales (assuming $2/pack wholesale), which if normal business rules apply would mean about $200 million in profit. Hasbro's quarterly report showed their games section, of which Magic is the anchor brand, was $235 million. One estimate had Magic's revenue at $250 million for 2013. About 1/3 of that is MTGO. Given growth since 2013, and a severe lack of specific numbers, it is entirely reasonable that there are about the same number of Stomping Ground Expeditions as there are Taigas. Just a reminder, I used a lot of guessimations here.
I'm glad you enjoyed reading it.
My deck needs some tweaking but certainly less than my 4c Blood deck (I will eventually buy the cards I want to play) or UWb Control deck. I used to play 4c or 5c so it was a nice change. Two years ago I did not find enough cards to fit in my deck in those colors but in those two years many strong cards were printed so Junk is fine^_^. (EDIT: I did, but then the deck was more of a hatebear deck rather than midrange and I don't plan to play that kind of a deck)
I'd like to focus on my control deck though for next time (I don't have much time though now). Last time I looked at it I couldn't even understand how I could play with it. It's a pile of random cards, hehe.
Nice tournament report, I enjoyed reading about your matchups. Also a great decklist you ran in the event, I'm a big fan of that style of deck.