I don't own a 360, but I've played a few games of DotP, and I liked it. The number one thing I took away from it was "Why can't my Magic Online look like this?" Sure MO has a more complicated UI, and more things to do, and tabs for the marketplace/trading/playing/tournament room. But how about just the cards on the table? DotP looks so slick.
Kamigawa mountains, Oddessy forests in the 10E frame, lightning strike islands, Alara salt field plains, and the awesome swamp in M10. But really, that's just because I'm too cheap for Unhinged lands. Those should be the one land per booster in MED3!
Their goal seems to be 7 cards to sell a MED set. MED1 had FoW, Disk, Moat, Armageddon, Lightning Bolt (I know), Ball Lightning (I know), and Juzam Djinn (doh) to sell it. Which is why it basically turned into a set with only FoW. MED2 was 5 duals, Necropotence, and Mana Crypt. I think it would be a bit much for them to put all 3 of those into MED3 + 5 enemy duals. What they could reasonably do is 2 or 3 duals + those 3 cards. But I would also be sad if those cards were never released. If they have to, just split Classic into Classic and Legacy.
Skill Borrower is/was going to be my deck doctor submission. :)
You're entitled to your opinion on fantasy. You're entitled to your opinion of LotR (Book or Film? The former can be a real pain to wade through, and your view on elves does have some merit after about the third or fourth page of untranslated singing, and don't get me started on Tom Bombadil...) You're entitled to your opinion on ficticious species. You're also entitled to your view on your own playing ability, but I will own you any time at Tribal, Kaleidoscope, Commander, 2HG with random or prechosen partners and even as a flanker in old school 1/1/1 Emperor, because I, too, love this game to death.
I was a member of my school chess team. My Great-Great-Uncle was a chess grandmaster who created some of the variations that Kasparov used to beat Deep Blue. It is true that I never dressed up as a chess piece. I did try out a few maverick gambits, sometimes even successfully. Chess, however, has eight pieces, all preordained, and 64 spaces. However, you are mistaken in thinking that people don't try out variant chess formats for fun, or trying to solve interesting chess problems. Look at a quality newspaper and there will usually be a chess problem tucked away, at least there are in my country, to challenge the reader. It isn't a full conventional game but an extrapolated puzzle, a variation using the same rules as the competitive one. Despite this, people take chess seriously: A few centuries of existence will do that to a game. Some take it too seriously. Bobby Fischer, one of the finest chessplayers America ever produced, is regrettably not one of the sanest: Being excessively competitive and squeezing out the rest of the world can lead to becoming unbalanced.
The trouble for your main point is, people DO play chess like that. you DO see chess players dressing up as queens or horses. Proof is as follows:
the poster above has it correct, fees kill that idea pretty quick. Not to mention some of us have to pay tax to buy from the store. In addition, 600 bucks spent puts you in range of the regular promo damnation. I doubt all thoose cards + damnation add up to 60 bucks in value.
Oh.. and there were quite a few of us, including the boss, who would get together during and after work to hang out and play. When it comes down to it, it's just a game. If some people want to make it a lifestyle, then so be it I say.
not really sure ,but i do kno that in a format where its all 20/20/20 removal and spells are hard to balance for alot of decks . which leaves the field of goblins merfolk slivers elves dont see anything remotley close to those decks that will beat them. and demonic consultation is unrestricted too
I remember playing against this in a T1 tournament at GenCon way back when.
-Given, some stuff in here looks underpowered by today's standards, but an unrestricted balance is something you could abuse the s#!+ out of nowadays
*Note - Chaos orb was rad as hell, people would velcro their sleeves to easels while playing as a counter to Chaos Orb*
The Rack / Balance Deck
Artifacts
1x Black Lotus
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Chaos Orb
3x Library of Leng
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
2x Relic Barrier
4x The Rack
Green
1x Regrowth
3x Sylvan Library
Red
4x Chain Lightning
3x Fireball
4x Lightning Bolt
White
4x Balance
2x Consecrate Land
3x Disenchant
Land
4x Bazaar of Baghdad
1x Maze of Ith
4x Mishra’s Factory
4x Plateau
4x Savannah
4x Taiga
Vial does seem popular but banning it? Is it really breaking the format? I haven't a clue being an Extended Format player mostly but it seems like it could not be dominant when Aggro decks seem to be winning.
Those rich dumb players were buying them up and playing them in their own decks because Anathemancer was a must play. I like the idea of a format balancing card but how balancing is it when it dominates?
there are a huge number of decks that are too powerfull in tribal being so limited / merfolk,goblin,slivers all established eternal archtypes all use the vial which should be banned ,necro is unrestricted but clamp banned..? and dont let me even get started on elfball
Blitz Hellion is fun to play with...surprise ender. But that said the only time I've had him was the Alara Reborn Prerelease Sealed Event and though I went 5-2 in the main (Squeaking in a t8) and had this guy in my deck he was never useful except where I had already cleared the board. I don't think Id want to draft him as anything but a goof when the packs are empty.
Colossal Might is not bad but I have seen it played poorly so many times I want to scream. People play it early when a life total swing won't matter and they risk losing a creature in response if I'm holding removal and often early on I am. A 2-1 invitation is sometimes hard to refuse. Particularly if I am sporting multiple removal or a creature that will swing for nice damage repeatedly when its potential good blocker dies prematurely. I'm not saying it is bad. Giant Growth +1/-1 is impressive if timed right. Kills a creature and or adds to trample damage or just plain kills the opponent late game assuming no removal/counter. All the same I don't value it highly in draft. Tier III at best I think.
Deadshot Minotaur is a great idea in theory. Cycling + a 3/4 that maybe kills a flyer is a great sideboard card at worst. I think Tier III is not quite right but IV-V makes sense usually. My experiences with it are not stellar so perhaps I don't respect it enough. Lots of 4 toughness fliers in the mix sadly or it would be top notch.
There is no doubt that Vengeful Rebirth is a nice finisher, particularly when your deck is sporting lots of fat and massively costed spells (Regrow an Ultimatum for the kill? just fun) That said 6cmc is massive in and of itself. I can't see this as being an early pick ever. It is a solid commitment to either Jund or Naya and then you need to pick well to justify it. If someone cuts all the fat you are left with an impotent overcosted regrowth. Tier IV-VI
I rate Vithian Renegades higher than you. It is a good man at 3/2 for 3. Yes it also commits you to Jund or Naya but it gives you a very strong tempo start if you do get it to fire off against a borderpost and late game it saves you from a number of strong annoyances (Flying artifact creatures, Obelisk of Alara, etc).
Anyway thanks for writing this series. Even when I disagree with your ratings it is fun to read.
And its easily removed should playing around the 2/2s be a problem. Quasali Pridemade, Naturalize, Deny Reality, etc. Perhaps as bait for those guys it could be worth it so that you can play your Esper bombs oh wait no. Esper is the exact wrong colors. Well I guess its a matter of play style. If you have a deck that denies creature bombs a lot a creature generator like this could be worth playing. Probably it is too narrow a card to ever consider but Id say it's Tier VI not VII.
I have played Chess since I was five, played against some of the best players in the world (thanks to having lived my life in NYC) and I have never met a single chess player who publicly eschewed fantasy or called people "nerds" for enjoying it. In fact some of the greatest chess masters (Nimzoviche, Alekhine, Capablanca,etc) were great sportsmen and would never spit in the face of the game they loved or the players who inhabited it, no matter how strange or absurd their opponents acted. If I faced an opponent who was excited about learning how to use pawns in the end game I surely would not make fun of their naivete for not understanding how to get there properly and why they lost to oppositional positioning and tempo when they had a passed pawn.
In the realm of M:TG it is not the narrow-minded bigots who win but those who are smartest and broadest of mind who in the end, prevail. Of the many pro Magic players I have known and enjoyed friendships with none have ever expressed any distaste for the "flavor" of the game nor disgust towards their fellow players other than those whose social habits leave much to be desired, in fact many enjoy RPGs and comics and other trappings of fantasy culture. The only stigma I see is the one you create for yourself, afraid to be who you are. You think you are being real but you hide behind your anonymity and spew nonsense hoping for attention. If that doesn't stigmatize you with those who know who you are I don't know what will. Only losers behave that way.
I understand not caring to engage in fantasy when you find it loathsome or scary (Devil worship? RocknRoll? Corruptive influences?) But why play at all if is merely a math game that you play for money. At it's top ranks M:TG will never support a person better than say computer programming or medicine. If you are so smart and serious-minded why not put that to some use instead of deriding those who gain enjoyment from their fantasy. The only conclusions I can come to are: a) You don't enjoy the game. b) You play because your few friends do. c) You aren't wise enough to live and let live. d) You feel invulnerable on the internet in an unidentified position, being a cyber-bully with impugnity. e) You have nothing better to do. f) You can't engage in activities that would make you less stygmatized because you don't understand that it is your personality that is causing people to shun you, not the game that you play. I could be wrong and I could be right but this is the impression you are making. Is this what you want us to think?
Fees would really kill that idea. Almost ten percent of your sales go towards paying fees. So even if you sold it for what you paid you'd lose about $60.
Why doesn't someone just buy 600 tickets from the Magic Online store and then sell them on eBay for close to purchase value? Last I checked, 100 Tix on ebay was selling for about $100 (sometimes more). For those w/ the $600 to float, is this a viable option?
Assume you sell the 100 Tix for $90 (an extremely low end estimate for eBay sales), you still get a bunch of promo cards for $60. That's probably not worth it but current auctions are ending closer to $98 which gets you the cards fro $10.
Sorry if this is a no-brainer, "Because Wizards will suspend your account" question. I haven't read anyone suggest that approach yet and have been curious why nobody's mentioned it yet.
Shaterri catch me online and I'm always ready and willing to test decks. I'm constantly building decks and have decks from all power levels so we can either battle with our Tier-1 decks to death or just have some fun with our "who plays his Progenitus first, wins!" decks.
By the way, as Hammy suggested, you may also join the clan. Details you can find in the forums.
Thanks for the volunteering guys! I'm on skype as erik.friborg, and generally record Monday night (but late Sunday is a possibility as well if that works better).
If you're looking to test for big events, I'd suggest the PureMTGO clan (of which Lord Erman and myself are a part of).
We're in the building phases right now but the goal is to become the clan for serious players in the MTGO Specific formats, like KScope, 100CS, Classice, etc. Look for more details in tomorrow's State of the Program. Until then you can hang out in /join puremtgo as a place to chat about pretty much whatever. :)
That deck is badass. And you sorted it by color.
I don't own a 360, but I've played a few games of DotP, and I liked it. The number one thing I took away from it was "Why can't my Magic Online look like this?" Sure MO has a more complicated UI, and more things to do, and tabs for the marketplace/trading/playing/tournament room. But how about just the cards on the table? DotP looks so slick.
Kamigawa mountains, Oddessy forests in the 10E frame, lightning strike islands, Alara salt field plains, and the awesome swamp in M10. But really, that's just because I'm too cheap for Unhinged lands. Those should be the one land per booster in MED3!
Their goal seems to be 7 cards to sell a MED set. MED1 had FoW, Disk, Moat, Armageddon, Lightning Bolt (I know), Ball Lightning (I know), and Juzam Djinn (doh) to sell it. Which is why it basically turned into a set with only FoW. MED2 was 5 duals, Necropotence, and Mana Crypt. I think it would be a bit much for them to put all 3 of those into MED3 + 5 enemy duals. What they could reasonably do is 2 or 3 duals + those 3 cards. But I would also be sad if those cards were never released. If they have to, just split Classic into Classic and Legacy.
Skill Borrower is/was going to be my deck doctor submission. :)
I'll make sure to add the "blue envelopes" to next week's table.
On the decks:
Eva Green is a class of BG aggro featuring Stalker, Goyf among others, with Pox elements like Hymn, Thoughtseize, and Small Pox.
Deadguy is the same but with white elements instead.
I believe the Dreadstill is UBW with countertops, EE, and trinket mage.
The banned lists for casual formats are reviewed on a monthly basis: Tribal should hopefully be up some time soon.
You're entitled to your opinion on fantasy. You're entitled to your opinion of LotR (Book or Film? The former can be a real pain to wade through, and your view on elves does have some merit after about the third or fourth page of untranslated singing, and don't get me started on Tom Bombadil...) You're entitled to your opinion on ficticious species. You're also entitled to your view on your own playing ability, but I will own you any time at Tribal, Kaleidoscope, Commander, 2HG with random or prechosen partners and even as a flanker in old school 1/1/1 Emperor, because I, too, love this game to death.
I was a member of my school chess team. My Great-Great-Uncle was a chess grandmaster who created some of the variations that Kasparov used to beat Deep Blue. It is true that I never dressed up as a chess piece. I did try out a few maverick gambits, sometimes even successfully. Chess, however, has eight pieces, all preordained, and 64 spaces. However, you are mistaken in thinking that people don't try out variant chess formats for fun, or trying to solve interesting chess problems. Look at a quality newspaper and there will usually be a chess problem tucked away, at least there are in my country, to challenge the reader. It isn't a full conventional game but an extrapolated puzzle, a variation using the same rules as the competitive one. Despite this, people take chess seriously: A few centuries of existence will do that to a game. Some take it too seriously. Bobby Fischer, one of the finest chessplayers America ever produced, is regrettably not one of the sanest: Being excessively competitive and squeezing out the rest of the world can lead to becoming unbalanced.
The trouble for your main point is, people DO play chess like that. you DO see chess players dressing up as queens or horses. Proof is as follows:
http://www.theapp.appstate.edu/archives_02-03/featured_photos/images/Liv...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ardvaark/214811139/in/set-72157594236293756/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO-dhucd0e4
People play chess like that. It does not have as much stigma as this game does. Your point is refuted through empirical evidence.
the poster above has it correct, fees kill that idea pretty quick. Not to mention some of us have to pay tax to buy from the store. In addition, 600 bucks spent puts you in range of the regular promo damnation. I doubt all thoose cards + damnation add up to 60 bucks in value.
Oh.. and there were quite a few of us, including the boss, who would get together during and after work to hang out and play. When it comes down to it, it's just a game. If some people want to make it a lifestyle, then so be it I say.
I am a little late in saying this, but I learned to play magic 15 years ago from a guy at work... Just thought that was funny.
not really sure ,but i do kno that in a format where its all 20/20/20 removal and spells are hard to balance for alot of decks . which leaves the field of goblins merfolk slivers elves dont see anything remotley close to those decks that will beat them. and demonic consultation is unrestricted too
I remember playing against this in a T1 tournament at GenCon way back when.
-Given, some stuff in here looks underpowered by today's standards, but an unrestricted balance is something you could abuse the s#!+ out of nowadays
*Note - Chaos orb was rad as hell, people would velcro their sleeves to easels while playing as a counter to Chaos Orb*
The Rack / Balance Deck
Artifacts
1x Black Lotus
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Chaos Orb
3x Library of Leng
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
2x Relic Barrier
4x The Rack
Green
1x Regrowth
3x Sylvan Library
Red
4x Chain Lightning
3x Fireball
4x Lightning Bolt
White
4x Balance
2x Consecrate Land
3x Disenchant
Land
4x Bazaar of Baghdad
1x Maze of Ith
4x Mishra’s Factory
4x Plateau
4x Savannah
4x Taiga
Vial does seem popular but banning it? Is it really breaking the format? I haven't a clue being an Extended Format player mostly but it seems like it could not be dominant when Aggro decks seem to be winning.
Those rich dumb players were buying them up and playing them in their own decks because Anathemancer was a must play. I like the idea of a format balancing card but how balancing is it when it dominates?
there are a huge number of decks that are too powerfull in tribal being so limited / merfolk,goblin,slivers all established eternal archtypes all use the vial which should be banned ,necro is unrestricted but clamp banned..? and dont let me even get started on elfball
You should!
Blitz Hellion is fun to play with...surprise ender. But that said the only time I've had him was the Alara Reborn Prerelease Sealed Event and though I went 5-2 in the main (Squeaking in a t8) and had this guy in my deck he was never useful except where I had already cleared the board. I don't think Id want to draft him as anything but a goof when the packs are empty.
Colossal Might is not bad but I have seen it played poorly so many times I want to scream. People play it early when a life total swing won't matter and they risk losing a creature in response if I'm holding removal and often early on I am. A 2-1 invitation is sometimes hard to refuse. Particularly if I am sporting multiple removal or a creature that will swing for nice damage repeatedly when its potential good blocker dies prematurely. I'm not saying it is bad. Giant Growth +1/-1 is impressive if timed right. Kills a creature and or adds to trample damage or just plain kills the opponent late game assuming no removal/counter. All the same I don't value it highly in draft. Tier III at best I think.
Deadshot Minotaur is a great idea in theory. Cycling + a 3/4 that maybe kills a flyer is a great sideboard card at worst. I think Tier III is not quite right but IV-V makes sense usually. My experiences with it are not stellar so perhaps I don't respect it enough. Lots of 4 toughness fliers in the mix sadly or it would be top notch.
There is no doubt that Vengeful Rebirth is a nice finisher, particularly when your deck is sporting lots of fat and massively costed spells (Regrow an Ultimatum for the kill? just fun) That said 6cmc is massive in and of itself. I can't see this as being an early pick ever. It is a solid commitment to either Jund or Naya and then you need to pick well to justify it. If someone cuts all the fat you are left with an impotent overcosted regrowth. Tier IV-VI
I rate Vithian Renegades higher than you. It is a good man at 3/2 for 3. Yes it also commits you to Jund or Naya but it gives you a very strong tempo start if you do get it to fire off against a borderpost and late game it saves you from a number of strong annoyances (Flying artifact creatures, Obelisk of Alara, etc).
Anyway thanks for writing this series. Even when I disagree with your ratings it is fun to read.
And its easily removed should playing around the 2/2s be a problem. Quasali Pridemade, Naturalize, Deny Reality, etc. Perhaps as bait for those guys it could be worth it so that you can play your Esper bombs oh wait no. Esper is the exact wrong colors. Well I guess its a matter of play style. If you have a deck that denies creature bombs a lot a creature generator like this could be worth playing. Probably it is too narrow a card to ever consider but Id say it's Tier VI not VII.
I have played Chess since I was five, played against some of the best players in the world (thanks to having lived my life in NYC) and I have never met a single chess player who publicly eschewed fantasy or called people "nerds" for enjoying it. In fact some of the greatest chess masters (Nimzoviche, Alekhine, Capablanca,etc) were great sportsmen and would never spit in the face of the game they loved or the players who inhabited it, no matter how strange or absurd their opponents acted. If I faced an opponent who was excited about learning how to use pawns in the end game I surely would not make fun of their naivete for not understanding how to get there properly and why they lost to oppositional positioning and tempo when they had a passed pawn.
In the realm of M:TG it is not the narrow-minded bigots who win but those who are smartest and broadest of mind who in the end, prevail. Of the many pro Magic players I have known and enjoyed friendships with none have ever expressed any distaste for the "flavor" of the game nor disgust towards their fellow players other than those whose social habits leave much to be desired, in fact many enjoy RPGs and comics and other trappings of fantasy culture. The only stigma I see is the one you create for yourself, afraid to be who you are. You think you are being real but you hide behind your anonymity and spew nonsense hoping for attention. If that doesn't stigmatize you with those who know who you are I don't know what will. Only losers behave that way.
I understand not caring to engage in fantasy when you find it loathsome or scary (Devil worship? RocknRoll? Corruptive influences?) But why play at all if is merely a math game that you play for money. At it's top ranks M:TG will never support a person better than say computer programming or medicine. If you are so smart and serious-minded why not put that to some use instead of deriding those who gain enjoyment from their fantasy. The only conclusions I can come to are: a) You don't enjoy the game. b) You play because your few friends do. c) You aren't wise enough to live and let live. d) You feel invulnerable on the internet in an unidentified position, being a cyber-bully with impugnity. e) You have nothing better to do. f) You can't engage in activities that would make you less stygmatized because you don't understand that it is your personality that is causing people to shun you, not the game that you play. I could be wrong and I could be right but this is the impression you are making. Is this what you want us to think?
Definitely build around Ward of Bones. That card would be a challenge.
Nice article.
Fees would really kill that idea. Almost ten percent of your sales go towards paying fees. So even if you sold it for what you paid you'd lose about $60.
Why doesn't someone just buy 600 tickets from the Magic Online store and then sell them on eBay for close to purchase value? Last I checked, 100 Tix on ebay was selling for about $100 (sometimes more). For those w/ the $600 to float, is this a viable option?
Assume you sell the 100 Tix for $90 (an extremely low end estimate for eBay sales), you still get a bunch of promo cards for $60. That's probably not worth it but current auctions are ending closer to $98 which gets you the cards fro $10.
Sorry if this is a no-brainer, "Because Wizards will suspend your account" question. I haven't read anyone suggest that approach yet and have been curious why nobody's mentioned it yet.
Shaterri catch me online and I'm always ready and willing to test decks. I'm constantly building decks and have decks from all power levels so we can either battle with our Tier-1 decks to death or just have some fun with our "who plays his Progenitus first, wins!" decks.
By the way, as Hammy suggested, you may also join the clan. Details you can find in the forums.
LE
I don't get it... you love the game to death, yet seem to despise a huge majority of the people who play it. Sad...
Thanks for the volunteering guys! I'm on skype as erik.friborg, and generally record Monday night (but late Sunday is a possibility as well if that works better).
If you're looking to test for big events, I'd suggest the PureMTGO clan (of which Lord Erman and myself are a part of).
We're in the building phases right now but the goal is to become the clan for serious players in the MTGO Specific formats, like KScope, 100CS, Classice, etc. Look for more details in tomorrow's State of the Program. Until then you can hang out in /join puremtgo as a place to chat about pretty much whatever. :)