Maybe after a few more weeks and after people collect their Zendikar cards, you can switch from Classic to Standard. This way we will get rid of all those broken combos of Classic and we will finally see some real decks that really are Tribal decks.
Without WotC to enforce a banning thru the program's filter, banning cards for a pre can be dicey. It can be hard to ensure that everybody is on the same page before the event. Getting DQ'd is also a good way to drive off players.
I like the advisor deck, but whats its win condition?
I don't think this is really true. While I know that this type of deck is not for everybody, there's plenty of interaction with your opponent. It's not like a storm combo deck where you just go off and ignore everything around you - this one has Walls, some planeswalkers, Moment's Peace, Counterspells, etc. There's a decent amount of interaction with your opponent.
I get what you're saying though, my next deck is very different!
I get what you're saying, but to be fair there are only 4 Counterspells in the deck, 8 if you count Remand. It's not like it's a Buehler Blue list with 25 counters.
I'll try to come up with something more johnny next time!
I would put this in the "not casual" category. I already played a commander game this week with this combo, and everyone just quit when the elements started to hit the board. Noone in their right minds considers a game that has infinite turns is casual. Frankly, any deck whose sole purpose is to keep your opponent from playing is not exactly in the casual category, I refer to these decks as "masturbatory". Might as well play a solo game against yourself, that's essentially what you're doing anyhow.
Ok first thing : Shard it was me that ran the green/white life-gaining cleric deck
and as for the ban list yes i agree.
i think with all the combos we are turning away the casual players which the format is aimed at
Sorry stealth i don't agree on the sideboard i think it would be to easy to forget while sidboarding to take out critters and not have enough in the deck when the game starts
unless wizards allow sideboards in tribal and add a check deck before game starts, i just think it would be too hard to marshal
but yes lets get rid of the combos and get back to critters killing critters, dog eat dog etc (but no banning my Golems,,:))
anything that relies on that many counterspells isnt very casual imo, whether its a combo lock or dromar actually winning the game in the end, the counterspells control the game to allow that, and that's really not very timmy or johnny, it's just spike pretending to be.
OMG i going to kill you...:)
But i must admit it was funny at the time
It was a lesson for all though, when selecting a card make sure u not typing in chat at the same time the selecting card window comes up.:(
agree with Paul u did hit some very tuff decks mine included (for which i am sorry about) it wasn't until we started that you told me it was a casual deck for an article, i would have played something a little more casual (discard i never think as casual) as i was working on that deck at the time so it was my choice when u asked for a classic game.
I definitely think that something needs to be done about the comboes running riot on the format, simply because they take away the differentiator of the format itself (i.e. smacking each other with armies of creatures). I'm not sure how you'd decide what to ban though. Grindstone and Helm of obediance seem obvious(ish) to me, but after that, what is too powerful? I don't think hypergenesis, hexmage-depths, imp-dredge or shaman-tooth should get banned, as they are all comboes which are based around a tribe, rather than just comboes being shoeorned into any old tribe you like. Quillspike combo is easily disrupted using creature removal, and I think that makes it fine. I mean, I think we should be aiming for a format where creatures and creature removal are as relevant as possible.
Overall, I still think the best bet to reduce the impact of comboes on the format would just be to allow sideboarding, with the caveat that the deck must still be tribal legal post-board. I think that this, combined with bans on the two previously mentioned cards, would prvide a much more creature-centric format.
Still, I'm aware that I have still only managed to play in one event so far, and my snake-control hardly set the world on fire...
Nice warp up , too bad the last game you don't have a replay ,
but on the bright side you should be thankful Mtgo didn't crash like it did so often on these release /pre release days.
when i played seald (or kicked you out and by the time you manage to login it was game loss)
I have a feeling mtgo sucks the last few days and its feels like V2.5 days
anyway after all the grunting nice to catch up on your articles , been missing it lately.
What I really like most about your articles is that even when you fail to provide the replays (damned Gremlins and Squirrels!) You still manage to provide some meat on the bones. Thanks for the read.
I did indeed enjoy this article! Quite an interesting combination of a johnny and spike deck. It does win and with an infinite combo engine (hate, hate!!) but does so in a style that I like. The one thing you didn't mention or didn't run across that would hose you would be recursive Wasteland/Stripmine.
Heya Shard I really do want to try the PREs that you have been hosting out but it seems my timing is pretty bad. RE the prison deck perhaps Propaganda? (I don't actually own the card myself but it is the original.) I think you could probably give the deck a bit more punch if you expand the mana to include green for Qasali Pridemage. (Since you can't sideboard in the format it works as a main deck combo hoser and also provides you with some early beats. Just a thought.
Onto combos relative to the format: Well Id say you should not ban all tier 1 cards but perhaps the more heinous turn 1/2 combos that involve 1 or 2 cards should be restricted or banned. I can't think of a better way to handle it. Allowing combo or any single strategy really to dominate is inviting the format to stagnate. Since sideboarding isn't allowed the format is seriously warped in terms of what decks can consist of and still be competitive so it isn't as wide open a field as Classic provides. Which is both good and bad. The good being that the spirit of the format can be more easily preserved the bad being that if people want to compete they must bring the one or two dominant decks to do so (or variants there of with potentially different shells.)
To edit this article, I have to edit it all in code, because the show my analysis links do not open up while in the draft stage, so I missed some because of that. I'll be taking another look at it in the morning hopefully.
Heya Markus kudos doing the "Godot Teaches Magic" thing. I think this style is good for anyone who likes to think a bit about tactics in the game setting. However there were a couple things...1)the images seem to cut off at the bottom for some of them, and 2) I found the hidden posts were a bit annoying to remember to click. I realize that it is just standard js formating but since they are really toggles a button would serve the purpose better than an onclick link. Those very minor criticisms aside, thanks for another great article. :)
(Also of note there were some minor typos that passed the spellchecker because they were actual words...same instead save for example. It helps to read through the article for that sort of thing because we all make typos.)
Cute Halloween theme deck. Sadly All Hallows Eve is just bad. Great idea but poor execution. Living Death is the good version. Also looks like you hit storm combo a few times which is really not very casual imho. It is beatable but since it sees teir 2-3 so often in formats where it is legal I really don't expect to see it in casual that often. That said you gave it a good try.
I suspect that the coke formula is well known by anyone who really wants to know, as well as the KFC spices and cooking techniques. (reverse engineering isn't that hard with poultry and minimum wage/factory wage earning informants)
regardless if someone knew what their formula was and used it it would be copyright infringement, which on any scale would be prosecutable, or that copyright has already expired in which case they aught to innovate something new or gtf off of the "super secret formula monopoly", I suspect that the right to use their brand name is the powerful component of intellectual property not the super secret formulas" they have.
Some people have a lot of money invested in mtgo, and being that that investment rests on the stability of the servers and the platform of programming that runs mtgo it seems a bit more reasonable that the patrons of that game be well informed as to what the company is doing to ensure the quality and security of that platform and those servers as well as any policy plans that may disrupt to any large degree the way the game is delivered and it's overall future.
I don't think what you said was that horrible, but it struck me at the time I heard it as somewhat more legalistic that im used to hearing from a magic fan, a reproach usually only held by people making real money for big scary conglomerate zombie corporations with no soul.
As I see it Hamtastic does a pretty fantastic job of servicing a community that he 1)likes and 2)supports so in reality, if he's not dishing on something it's to keep him (and in turn US) in good standing with WotC and thus reap future benefits. Plus, it's his business what he does and doesn't tell people; so lay off the guy. Plus, it's probably, as noted, a cross promotional thing. Which is always good...
I disagree. MBC variants have been tier 1/1.5 almost the lifetime of Classic. They vary from "Dark Confidant beatdown" to "Pox" to Eva Green, but MBCish decks have and will continue to survive through Oath. In fact, Oath seems awful vs these decks. Extirpate, LLotV, etc are all pretty functional vs Oath while giving the Black decks time to win. I understand your point, but that was a bad example.
Yes Lord good idea
but vampires ha i laugh in the face of the night creatures with my allies
"Don't be too proud of the night terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy your opponent is insignificant next to the power of the Allies"
Maybe after a few more weeks and after people collect their Zendikar cards, you can switch from Classic to Standard. This way we will get rid of all those broken combos of Classic and we will finally see some real decks that really are Tribal decks.
*cough*vampires*cough*
LE
Without WotC to enforce a banning thru the program's filter, banning cards for a pre can be dicey. It can be hard to ensure that everybody is on the same page before the event. Getting DQ'd is also a good way to drive off players.
I like the advisor deck, but whats its win condition?
I don't think this is really true. While I know that this type of deck is not for everybody, there's plenty of interaction with your opponent. It's not like a storm combo deck where you just go off and ignore everything around you - this one has Walls, some planeswalkers, Moment's Peace, Counterspells, etc. There's a decent amount of interaction with your opponent.
I get what you're saying though, my next deck is very different!
I get what you're saying, but to be fair there are only 4 Counterspells in the deck, 8 if you count Remand. It's not like it's a Buehler Blue list with 25 counters.
I'll try to come up with something more johnny next time!
I would put this in the "not casual" category. I already played a commander game this week with this combo, and everyone just quit when the elements started to hit the board. Noone in their right minds considers a game that has infinite turns is casual. Frankly, any deck whose sole purpose is to keep your opponent from playing is not exactly in the casual category, I refer to these decks as "masturbatory". Might as well play a solo game against yourself, that's essentially what you're doing anyhow.
Sorry Steve just skipped to the bottom when i found you had written it and not Kathryn...
Only Joking
Great deck idea, would never be able to play it myself, it would just confuse the hell out of me.
if it not beatdown i snookered
Ok first thing : Shard it was me that ran the green/white life-gaining cleric deck
and as for the ban list yes i agree.
i think with all the combos we are turning away the casual players which the format is aimed at
Sorry stealth i don't agree on the sideboard i think it would be to easy to forget while sidboarding to take out critters and not have enough in the deck when the game starts
unless wizards allow sideboards in tribal and add a check deck before game starts, i just think it would be too hard to marshal
but yes lets get rid of the combos and get back to critters killing critters, dog eat dog etc (but no banning my Golems,,:))
just make only cards that refer to the tribe allowable + lands, and there you go.
anything that relies on that many counterspells isnt very casual imo, whether its a combo lock or dromar actually winning the game in the end, the counterspells control the game to allow that, and that's really not very timmy or johnny, it's just spike pretending to be.
OMG i going to kill you...:)
But i must admit it was funny at the time
It was a lesson for all though, when selecting a card make sure u not typing in chat at the same time the selecting card window comes up.:(
agree with Paul u did hit some very tuff decks mine included (for which i am sorry about) it wasn't until we started that you told me it was a casual deck for an article, i would have played something a little more casual (discard i never think as casual) as i was working on that deck at the time so it was my choice when u asked for a classic game.
I definitely think that something needs to be done about the comboes running riot on the format, simply because they take away the differentiator of the format itself (i.e. smacking each other with armies of creatures). I'm not sure how you'd decide what to ban though. Grindstone and Helm of obediance seem obvious(ish) to me, but after that, what is too powerful? I don't think hypergenesis, hexmage-depths, imp-dredge or shaman-tooth should get banned, as they are all comboes which are based around a tribe, rather than just comboes being shoeorned into any old tribe you like. Quillspike combo is easily disrupted using creature removal, and I think that makes it fine. I mean, I think we should be aiming for a format where creatures and creature removal are as relevant as possible.
Overall, I still think the best bet to reduce the impact of comboes on the format would just be to allow sideboarding, with the caveat that the deck must still be tribal legal post-board. I think that this, combined with bans on the two previously mentioned cards, would prvide a much more creature-centric format.
Still, I'm aware that I have still only managed to play in one event so far, and my snake-control hardly set the world on fire...
Don't feel too bad about the Seismic Shudder play. I also thought it was a sorcery until I read this article :)
Okay everybody, thanks for all the comments. It will be Std Singleton next week. I thank you all for taking time and commenting and voting.
LE
Nice warp up , too bad the last game you don't have a replay ,
but on the bright side you should be thankful Mtgo didn't crash like it did so often on these release /pre release days.
when i played seald (or kicked you out and by the time you manage to login it was game loss)
I have a feeling mtgo sucks the last few days and its feels like V2.5 days
anyway after all the grunting nice to catch up on your articles , been missing it lately.
What I really like most about your articles is that even when you fail to provide the replays (damned Gremlins and Squirrels!) You still manage to provide some meat on the bones. Thanks for the read.
I did indeed enjoy this article! Quite an interesting combination of a johnny and spike deck. It does win and with an infinite combo engine (hate, hate!!) but does so in a style that I like. The one thing you didn't mention or didn't run across that would hose you would be recursive Wasteland/Stripmine.
Heya Shard I really do want to try the PREs that you have been hosting out but it seems my timing is pretty bad. RE the prison deck perhaps Propaganda? (I don't actually own the card myself but it is the original.) I think you could probably give the deck a bit more punch if you expand the mana to include green for Qasali Pridemage. (Since you can't sideboard in the format it works as a main deck combo hoser and also provides you with some early beats. Just a thought.
Onto combos relative to the format: Well Id say you should not ban all tier 1 cards but perhaps the more heinous turn 1/2 combos that involve 1 or 2 cards should be restricted or banned. I can't think of a better way to handle it. Allowing combo or any single strategy really to dominate is inviting the format to stagnate. Since sideboarding isn't allowed the format is seriously warped in terms of what decks can consist of and still be competitive so it isn't as wide open a field as Classic provides. Which is both good and bad. The good being that the spirit of the format can be more easily preserved the bad being that if people want to compete they must bring the one or two dominant decks to do so (or variants there of with potentially different shells.)
Nope that's my fault.
To edit this article, I have to edit it all in code, because the show my analysis links do not open up while in the draft stage, so I missed some because of that. I'll be taking another look at it in the morning hopefully.
Heya Markus kudos doing the "Godot Teaches Magic" thing. I think this style is good for anyone who likes to think a bit about tactics in the game setting. However there were a couple things...1)the images seem to cut off at the bottom for some of them, and 2) I found the hidden posts were a bit annoying to remember to click. I realize that it is just standard js formating but since they are really toggles a button would serve the purpose better than an onclick link. Those very minor criticisms aside, thanks for another great article. :)
(Also of note there were some minor typos that passed the spellchecker because they were actual words...same instead save for example. It helps to read through the article for that sort of thing because we all make typos.)
Cute Halloween theme deck. Sadly All Hallows Eve is just bad. Great idea but poor execution. Living Death is the good version. Also looks like you hit storm combo a few times which is really not very casual imho. It is beatable but since it sees teir 2-3 so often in formats where it is legal I really don't expect to see it in casual that often. That said you gave it a good try.
Nice writeup. Very well done and informative. I'm really enjoying playing Zendikar sealed right now so this article was right up my alley.
I suspect that the coke formula is well known by anyone who really wants to know, as well as the KFC spices and cooking techniques. (reverse engineering isn't that hard with poultry and minimum wage/factory wage earning informants)
regardless if someone knew what their formula was and used it it would be copyright infringement, which on any scale would be prosecutable, or that copyright has already expired in which case they aught to innovate something new or gtf off of the "super secret formula monopoly", I suspect that the right to use their brand name is the powerful component of intellectual property not the super secret formulas" they have.
Some people have a lot of money invested in mtgo, and being that that investment rests on the stability of the servers and the platform of programming that runs mtgo it seems a bit more reasonable that the patrons of that game be well informed as to what the company is doing to ensure the quality and security of that platform and those servers as well as any policy plans that may disrupt to any large degree the way the game is delivered and it's overall future.
I don't think what you said was that horrible, but it struck me at the time I heard it as somewhat more legalistic that im used to hearing from a magic fan, a reproach usually only held by people making real money for big scary conglomerate zombie corporations with no soul.
As I see it Hamtastic does a pretty fantastic job of servicing a community that he 1)likes and 2)supports so in reality, if he's not dishing on something it's to keep him (and in turn US) in good standing with WotC and thus reap future benefits. Plus, it's his business what he does and doesn't tell people; so lay off the guy. Plus, it's probably, as noted, a cross promotional thing. Which is always good...
I disagree. MBC variants have been tier 1/1.5 almost the lifetime of Classic. They vary from "Dark Confidant beatdown" to "Pox" to Eva Green, but MBCish decks have and will continue to survive through Oath. In fact, Oath seems awful vs these decks. Extirpate, LLotV, etc are all pretty functional vs Oath while giving the Black decks time to win. I understand your point, but that was a bad example.