It seems to me they have not spent a lot of time trying to clarify what their collective opinion of the meaning of the word in fact is. I think they could care less. In reality the ball comes back to the player's court. It is up to us to decide what casual means for us. No one else gets to decide what we think unless we forfeit our self-determination. So bottomline is: ...opinions are ubiquitous and like certain body parts. No one has to like or agree with anyone else's.
I get the need to choose the narrowest definition you can if you are a pure 'cut-throat winner takes all' spike. And imho that is perfectly OK. But the vast majority of magic players are not pro wannabes (though they may have unfulfilled dreams, they don't actually aspire to the pt.) As such their view is different.
Casual = have fun (whatever that is to them.) I am all for armageddon in a multiplayer game for example and I KNOW that isn't kosher by a lot of people's standards. I won't include armageddon where I know it is shunned but I think it is perfectly fine. As is counterspell/mana drain what have you. The things that make me frown are the infinite combo engines and obvious 'I win' strategies that come out on turn 1-2 and leave no room for real play. Just an exploited loophole. But at the same time I know people who live for those kinds of games.
I watched Zvi take out a whole table (50+ players including myself 4 players at a time since the worlds were 5 players deep) using such an engine. Back then it was astounding to watch and kind of fascinating the first time the engine came online. A half an hour later though it was yawn city.
Meanwhile I am still trying to play the game and enjoy it. I may even start building Prismatic again. Seems like there must be some fun new interactions since a couple of years ago.
1) Azusa as a commander, because all that deck does is ramp into
2) Eldrazi Monsters, specifically Emrakul. Actually, Emrakul is the only one that really pisses me off.
i'm sure more will come to me...
Maybe you should ask WotC what their definition of a casual game is. Seeing as it's their game and all, I think their opinion holds a little more water than most. The reason their definition isn't universal is because the majority of players just make up their own definitions as they see fit.
Mishra is a helluva fun deck to play, though I had to make some changes for budget reasons (really want those Epochrasites!).
The substitutions I made were Etherium Sculptor/Master Transmuter/Triskelion for Epochrasite/Lodestone Golem/Phylactery Lich, which have lots of synergy with Mishra - double border posts for free is great, and bouncing artifacts to get additional Mishra triggers (and replaying them at a discount, to boot). Triskelion solves the protection problem, and with transmuter and overseer is a veritable machine gun of doom :)
Can't wait to try adding Strider Harness from Scars as a psuedo Lightning Greaves with pump.
Anyways, always enjoy your articles, hope to see more of your budget/rogue pieces!
For my first post as a registered user I would like to post a very unpopular idea.
I would propose that certain "beginner" tournaments lock a player account from entering other tournaments until the first tournament had concluded. This means you 0-2 drop (a 4 round swiss tourny), your account is locked for the remaining 2 rounds. This creates a time cost (or opportunity cost) to enter beginner tournaments. New players will rarely find this time cost to be a burden (how many new players do you know that stack drafts or sealed swiss?) while online veterans very much are aware of opportunity costs. Yes this idea has work arounds (multiple accounts comes to mind). But this is a soft solution, merely designed to make beginner level events less appealing to experienced players without causing a noticable impact to new players (like lower payouts would).
Here is my personal experience that makes this make sense to me:
When I am playing for some sort of payout I am interested in overlapping tournaments and trying to achieve max EV per minute/hour. Frustration defined: starting 4-0 in a tourney then losing 3 rounds in a row to miss the cut in a 7 round tourney because I just played a ton of magic for negative account value. I can name all sorts of time sinks I dislike... early swiss rounds-which always go to time, swiss drafts, losing second round in an 8-4 to name a few. What keeps me out of the swiss ques most of the time isnt the payout (opening 3 packs for 2 tickets is a gamble I'll take - no I dont always win) instead its the time required. Creating "one at a time" tournaments might make me hesitant to join now. When I was starting anything that meant a lower level of competition would have been exciting to me.
Yes I can see how this might impact WOTC profits or have a hard time firing, but it was a starting thought.
I'd like to see a "what cards piss people off in Commander" list. I think it would make an interesting article and with you experience I bet you could put together one with a lot of cards people would agree with.
I put a Razia's Purification in my Red/White deck, but couldn't bring myself to play it even when it was in my hand. It's since been removed. I would have felt dirty (and possibly blocked) doing that to the rest of the table.
Though a lot of times it's the combo, not the individual cards. Mindslaver once may be annoying but it only pisses me off when it's used over and over again.
On MTGO a casual game is by definition an unrated match. All PREs are casual in this regard. All these other opinions players have concocted about what casual actually is are hogwash.
I'm sorry to say this and I mean this in a respectful way, you are not one to ever even think about discussing this. The issue is a player mind set, if they want to play the format, they do. Cost isn't an issue and anyone who thinks it is needs to really face facts, intial cost may seem like an overwelming investment, but longerterm cost is cheaper than any other format because the cards pay for themselves. It's an entire mentallity that is the issue. Why would people want to play at anything but standard when thats what they play at FNMs, PTQ's and Grand Prix. Yes, there are 2 legacy grand prix, with 400+ man ptq standard events, and yes there are limited and ext ptq's with Standard side events. It's really not that hard to look at that concept and walk away with a finite answer. If there was a Legacy Grand Prix x4 and a Pro-Tour Legacy event, then yes, everyone would be playing the format. Nothing else will fix it, and this article doesn't even highlight the fact that its the players mentallity and no one elses. Respectfully I disagree and I hope you don't continue to write on this topic, rather you should focus the casual side where your thoughts and logics shine. Opinions like this to me are issues directed at the wrong source to fix the problem and until there are PTQs, Grand Prixs, and Pro-Tours (yes all three), legacy will be the younger sister to EXT and Standard and take a back seat with side events. Vintage is the real problem in this.
Prismatic really is such a great format, and it's a shame that WotC no longer supports it online. I'll have to start collection some prizes again and see if I can get another event together, because aside from Vintage/Classic, I can't think of any other format that is as entertaining to play as this one is.
ummm well i was still only ranking the three cards he mentioned...i chose the numbers as i did to show that warp world comes nowhere close to even comparing to the others
No matter how it’s framed, the “LD still might lose” argument doesn’t change the fact that their entire strategy is built on denying their opponent the ability to play the game. Regardless of its efficacy. Likewise, the sole 4x Stone Rain in their deck or 1x Wasteland in a 100 Card Singleton deck MAY be used for the same purpose, and while less offensive to the general atmosphere of the Casual Room as I see it, they are certainly more excusable. They’re probably in your deck to deal with manlands or recursion lands, right?
Wizards understands this, as we’ve seen in their scaling back of LD in general as seen in recent sets. Stone Rain now takes 2 colored mana, and Wasteland can’t be used until they’re at a comfortable 4 land.
Warp is seen as sort of a janky one card combo. A lot of people don't like playing against it because many times it acts as an Obliterate that doesn't effect the caster. People don't like putting effort into playing their resources only to have them wiped out.
People who like to play control, as well as others, often don't like using the card due to the inherent randomness. You can warp into bunch of land while someone else gets Emrakul. So there are several reasons people don't like it.
People groan if it hurts them but are fine if it helps. People really get annoyed if you get more than one off in a turn. So you will see people concede a bunch. So like I said its not for everyone.
Yeah I started to break it out, but the article was just long enough already without those additions and the focus was more the creature base and showing how the interactions could be used as a decent base for a prism deck, most decks aren't so creature focused and in fact its the non-creature spells that really make the deck
well since those were the three cards he asked about i ranked them in their order. i mean sure if i wanted to pull cards out of thin air that no one had questioned the list would be totally different. here context is key...
It that betrays? I imagine that one is pretty darned upsetting.
It seems to me they have not spent a lot of time trying to clarify what their collective opinion of the meaning of the word in fact is. I think they could care less. In reality the ball comes back to the player's court. It is up to us to decide what casual means for us. No one else gets to decide what we think unless we forfeit our self-determination. So bottomline is: ...opinions are ubiquitous and like certain body parts. No one has to like or agree with anyone else's.
I get the need to choose the narrowest definition you can if you are a pure 'cut-throat winner takes all' spike. And imho that is perfectly OK. But the vast majority of magic players are not pro wannabes (though they may have unfulfilled dreams, they don't actually aspire to the pt.) As such their view is different.
Casual = have fun (whatever that is to them.) I am all for armageddon in a multiplayer game for example and I KNOW that isn't kosher by a lot of people's standards. I won't include armageddon where I know it is shunned but I think it is perfectly fine. As is counterspell/mana drain what have you. The things that make me frown are the infinite combo engines and obvious 'I win' strategies that come out on turn 1-2 and leave no room for real play. Just an exploited loophole. But at the same time I know people who live for those kinds of games.
I watched Zvi take out a whole table (50+ players including myself 4 players at a time since the worlds were 5 players deep) using such an engine. Back then it was astounding to watch and kind of fascinating the first time the engine came online. A half an hour later though it was yawn city.
Meanwhile I am still trying to play the game and enjoy it. I may even start building Prismatic again. Seems like there must be some fun new interactions since a couple of years ago.
Pretty much the definition of "not helping" sir.
1) Azusa as a commander, because all that deck does is ramp into
2) Eldrazi Monsters, specifically Emrakul. Actually, Emrakul is the only one that really pisses me off.
i'm sure more will come to me...
Maybe you should ask WotC what their definition of a casual game is. Seeing as it's their game and all, I think their opinion holds a little more water than most. The reason their definition isn't universal is because the majority of players just make up their own definitions as they see fit.
Mishra is a helluva fun deck to play, though I had to make some changes for budget reasons (really want those Epochrasites!).
The substitutions I made were Etherium Sculptor/Master Transmuter/Triskelion for Epochrasite/Lodestone Golem/Phylactery Lich, which have lots of synergy with Mishra - double border posts for free is great, and bouncing artifacts to get additional Mishra triggers (and replaying them at a discount, to boot). Triskelion solves the protection problem, and with transmuter and overseer is a veritable machine gun of doom :)
Can't wait to try adding Strider Harness from Scars as a psuedo Lightning Greaves with pump.
Anyways, always enjoy your articles, hope to see more of your budget/rogue pieces!
Well not to put too fine a point on it but your definition of casual is a) not universal and b) hogwash. Sorry if that is too blunt for you.
Card number 1- Gaddock Teeg....ok im good
just wanted to get that off my chest
For my first post as a registered user I would like to post a very unpopular idea.
I would propose that certain "beginner" tournaments lock a player account from entering other tournaments until the first tournament had concluded. This means you 0-2 drop (a 4 round swiss tourny), your account is locked for the remaining 2 rounds. This creates a time cost (or opportunity cost) to enter beginner tournaments. New players will rarely find this time cost to be a burden (how many new players do you know that stack drafts or sealed swiss?) while online veterans very much are aware of opportunity costs. Yes this idea has work arounds (multiple accounts comes to mind). But this is a soft solution, merely designed to make beginner level events less appealing to experienced players without causing a noticable impact to new players (like lower payouts would).
Here is my personal experience that makes this make sense to me:
When I am playing for some sort of payout I am interested in overlapping tournaments and trying to achieve max EV per minute/hour. Frustration defined: starting 4-0 in a tourney then losing 3 rounds in a row to miss the cut in a 7 round tourney because I just played a ton of magic for negative account value. I can name all sorts of time sinks I dislike... early swiss rounds-which always go to time, swiss drafts, losing second round in an 8-4 to name a few. What keeps me out of the swiss ques most of the time isnt the payout (opening 3 packs for 2 tickets is a gamble I'll take - no I dont always win) instead its the time required. Creating "one at a time" tournaments might make me hesitant to join now. When I was starting anything that meant a lower level of competition would have been exciting to me.
Yes I can see how this might impact WOTC profits or have a hard time firing, but it was a starting thought.
I'd like to see a "what cards piss people off in Commander" list. I think it would make an interesting article and with you experience I bet you could put together one with a lot of cards people would agree with.
I put a Razia's Purification in my Red/White deck, but couldn't bring myself to play it even when it was in my hand. It's since been removed. I would have felt dirty (and possibly blocked) doing that to the rest of the table.
Though a lot of times it's the combo, not the individual cards. Mindslaver once may be annoying but it only pisses me off when it's used over and over again.
I have been sporadic as well. Should be on tomorrow night for sure. Should be on tonight also.
On MTGO a casual game is by definition an unrated match. All PREs are casual in this regard. All these other opinions players have concocted about what casual actually is are hogwash.
I'm sorry to say this and I mean this in a respectful way, you are not one to ever even think about discussing this. The issue is a player mind set, if they want to play the format, they do. Cost isn't an issue and anyone who thinks it is needs to really face facts, intial cost may seem like an overwelming investment, but longerterm cost is cheaper than any other format because the cards pay for themselves. It's an entire mentallity that is the issue. Why would people want to play at anything but standard when thats what they play at FNMs, PTQ's and Grand Prix. Yes, there are 2 legacy grand prix, with 400+ man ptq standard events, and yes there are limited and ext ptq's with Standard side events. It's really not that hard to look at that concept and walk away with a finite answer. If there was a Legacy Grand Prix x4 and a Pro-Tour Legacy event, then yes, everyone would be playing the format. Nothing else will fix it, and this article doesn't even highlight the fact that its the players mentallity and no one elses. Respectfully I disagree and I hope you don't continue to write on this topic, rather you should focus the casual side where your thoughts and logics shine. Opinions like this to me are issues directed at the wrong source to fix the problem and until there are PTQs, Grand Prixs, and Pro-Tours (yes all three), legacy will be the younger sister to EXT and Standard and take a back seat with side events. Vintage is the real problem in this.
see you say you play ater 9:30 pacific time...though i never see you. though i have been slacking this week.
Prismatic really is such a great format, and it's a shame that WotC no longer supports it online. I'll have to start collection some prizes again and see if I can get another event together, because aside from Vintage/Classic, I can't think of any other format that is as entertaining to play as this one is.
ummm well i was still only ranking the three cards he mentioned...i chose the numbers as i did to show that warp world comes nowhere close to even comparing to the others
In context...you said
1...
2. Armageddon
9xx Warp World...
Do you see how in this context I might have assumed you felt Armageddon was at the top of the list?
No matter how it’s framed, the “LD still might lose” argument doesn’t change the fact that their entire strategy is built on denying their opponent the ability to play the game. Regardless of its efficacy. Likewise, the sole 4x Stone Rain in their deck or 1x Wasteland in a 100 Card Singleton deck MAY be used for the same purpose, and while less offensive to the general atmosphere of the Casual Room as I see it, they are certainly more excusable. They’re probably in your deck to deal with manlands or recursion lands, right?
Wizards understands this, as we’ve seen in their scaling back of LD in general as seen in recent sets. Stone Rain now takes 2 colored mana, and Wasteland can’t be used until they’re at a comfortable 4 land.
As the article states he failed to get them in time.
woah woah woah woah woah woah woah where are the prices
Warp is seen as sort of a janky one card combo. A lot of people don't like playing against it because many times it acts as an Obliterate that doesn't effect the caster. People don't like putting effort into playing their resources only to have them wiped out.
People who like to play control, as well as others, often don't like using the card due to the inherent randomness. You can warp into bunch of land while someone else gets Emrakul. So there are several reasons people don't like it.
People groan if it hurts them but are fine if it helps. People really get annoyed if you get more than one off in a turn. So you will see people concede a bunch. So like I said its not for everyone.
Yeah I started to break it out, but the article was just long enough already without those additions and the focus was more the creature base and showing how the interactions could be used as a decent base for a prism deck, most decks aren't so creature focused and in fact its the non-creature spells that really make the deck
well since those were the three cards he asked about i ranked them in their order. i mean sure if i wanted to pull cards out of thin air that no one had questioned the list would be totally different. here context is key...
Shows how rusty I am after taking a few weeks off, missing cards are 4 everflowing chalice
No, he's agreeing.
The spellbomb costs 4, making it worse than Krosan Tusker, which is a fine card for pauper but exactly a staple.