Another great read olaw. If I remember correctly I think I played out the Bane on turn 3 in the last game to try to keep him of the early Stinkdrinker and I had not seen any removal other than the Tendrils in the previous games. Unfortunately he did have removal and it turned out to be a bad play putting it out when I did lol. He had such a fast game 2 on me I felt I needed to have something out to slow him down game 3. Congrats on winning the tourney Gonzales, you ran the deck great and deserved the win :)
Like I said in the comments for my deck there were times when it felt too slow and the final match was one of those times. I really liked running the Rock deck, when it worked it felt like I was in such control that I could not lose. I am open to suggestions about how to improve my list, I tryed a few differant things and each time I changed it around it seemed to be worse than the list I ran for this tournament.
I agree the same could be said for Legacy. I guess your opinion of what "fires well" varies quite a bit from mine, and the one of the writer of this article. Legacy will fall into this same void in a year or two, let's not forget it's still fairly "shiny and new". Then's there is the fact that it's not a matter of the staples when comparing Classic vs. Legacy, it's the banned cards in Legacy that are legal in Classic(see Tolarian Academy) which manager to pull $10+. I'm sorry, but I for one(and thousands upon thousands of others) do not see just cause to buy pixels at that rate, especially when the rewards are just more pixels. It is good that WotC is putting some effort into combining paper event procedures into MTGO, but it's not there yet, it's not even close at this point. Why do you think Classic "isn't as popular"? Answer: The amount of people with these classic cards is a tiny fraction of the amount of people playing the game. This WILL NOT change unless more of these cards are introduced. Period.
The writing was good (of course, it's Peter Jahn) but the title was misleading. This article was a sealed event walkthrough, not a "survival guide for the UD release." It provided somewhat random commentary on cards good in a sealed event using all three urza's sets, but wasn't comprehensive in any way, and did not touch at all on triple UD drafting - one of the main events in a UD release. There also seemed to be a bit more gloating and self-congratulation than I prefer to read in a "survival guide" article (or anything else, for that matter).
I agree that when you are drafting Urza's, you are usually playing with a pretty tough crowd. I played in a half dozen triple UD drafts, and never once saw a card played that was weak, or deck that wasn't well-built. Honestly, I'm not sure how people have so rapidly mastered a format that is brand new. Either they are excellent drafters, or play this format extensively (traders?) during the period that triple UD is available (or both). Kind of a shame, really. I really wish they would make swiss available for these brief events with a new format. It's hard to get skill with a new set when you have trouble making it past the first round.
And yet it fires very well. I'm pretty sure your complaints as to the entry costs for for Classic are made moot by the fact Legacy is just as dependent (maybe more so) on the same expensive cards, and yet fires frequently.
Classic simply isn't as popular right now. Full stop.
Unfortunately I had major technical difficulties this time around. All the video I first shot for the article was lost other than the first game against Jund. I was able to save game two but unable to attach audio commentary.
Classic will never fire more frequently as long as too many of the staple cards are prohibitively expensive...FoW, The tutors(vamp,enlight,etc.)I could go on and on. If WoTC really wanted Classic to be an active format, they would stop worrying about the "collector" side of the game and just print/release more copies of these high level cards. It's the same in paper MTG, nearly no one has moxes, lotus, recalls, heck even Dual Lands are fairly scarce(comparatively) With online, I understand there is no "limit" to how many are in the market, but they could help with promo's and rewards cards that aren't Oona's Blackguard or Giant Growth. Now with the mythic rares they only exacerbated the problem because the planeswalkers are super powerful but all ridiculously expensive. Classic is reserved for the long time collector/player or the wealthy, it is not for the common player.
Very cool deck and it is nice to see something for standard that is easy on the wallet. The only thing is that your last video didn't have any sound when I played it which is a shame cause your commentary makes these videos very enjoyable
I like the deck, but mind sludge is making you swerve too much to black, while you could just opt to play Bloodhusk Ritualist and do the same. Hey, it even got a body to swing with!
More than that, it allows you to play Garruk. Garruk loves him, as he can untap 2 more swamps to kick to.
And I hear garruk works quite well with persecutor, grave titan and wurmcoil tokens.
Furthermore, it allows you to play with Tectonic edge, adding another nail to some coffins..
T1 swamp, IOK
T2 forest, explore, land
T3 land, garruk, untap to keep doomblade mana open or create a 3/3 token.
T4 land, float 2 black, untap with garruk, kick Bloodhusk Ritualist 4 times.
I like the hexmages and BSZ in the side.
here, might as well post my deck. Hit me up on MTGO to play some matches (name: 152710):
Well, I know you're right about Daze. Actually whiffy told me to drop them when he saw the list but I kept them in. I don't know, I think Daze is one of those cards I like having around.
And besides, I will replace them with Mental Misstep after NPH's release, so the problem will be solved automatically.
also one thing i think is often overlooked by people touting urza's block EV, is that will the packs contain more valuable cards on avg than alot of sets, the competetion is much tougher, release events aside for the most part. There just arent alot of wet behind the ears 1600 level players toiling in the uz ques....which has to be a factor if you are picking a format to play for some profit...i know your article wasnt really aimed at the profit side, but therealgangster addressed it in his articles about uz and i just wanted to offer a counter point.
Nice article, i really enjoy uz block, not so much because i think it is a great well thought out block, more just because it offers something different on mtgo and provides some powerful constructed cards for a variety of formats...It could def use some more exploration now that UD is online. On the flip side, i have mixed feelings about the events, the cost is high, and the payout which should be uzulud, is instead all ud, and i cant see any scenerio under which destiny boosters will ever be worth anything at all after the triple UD drafts stop firing...also triple destiny might be the worst draft format i have ever played, just awful. however i might have a more optimistic outlook if i opened metalworker!
Great cast guys. Didn't have time before to comment before when I listened, but I wanted to post something to let you know I am glad you are continuing this. I missed hearing Erik's voice but it was almost like I could hear his responses in between the pauses. Thanks again.
if 4 Mishra's and 4 Wasteland seems like too much colorless mana, did you consider running 2-3 copies Treetop Village or Creeping Tar Pit as your man-land? I guess "comes into play tapped" is a pretty big drawback for a land in the format but the creature half is arguably better.
When I made P2P1, I chukled. I rolled my eyes at myself. I was happy how the pick worked out after the fact. At the time I just thought, "this is stupid, but..." I was very lucky to have as good of a pack 2 as I did especially since I threw away the first pick.
I played 10 Plains to six Mountains and was still happy to have Gold Myr just in case. It could be the difference between a turn three Skyhunter or Skyguard vs a too late Skyhunter or Skyguard.
Somewhat related story: Today I had my first MBS first pick in white, Phyrexian Rebirth. I didn't play it. When scouting I found that another player also opened a Phyrexian Rebirth, and another still opened White Suns's Zenith.
Upload the video to youtube, get the embedded code, come back here and open your article and hit the "source" button on the upper left, paste the code, hit "source" again and voila; the video is there.
Really good article and nice to see you come on the legacy ground. This format is so deep and so interesting, I guess you'll have enough matter to write for the 10 futher years only about it...
I especialy enjoyed all the part of the article about jacestill because it remembers me very well why I love this deck and this format so much. A cunning wish variation is also interesting in this build btw.
3x Hasn't been to clumpy and he is often a kill target, so having access to 3 isn't a terrible thing. You can always ponder or brainstorm fetch away extras when you don't need them.
Ponder is better imo, you can dig 3 deep and lets say you want to keep only the top 2, just wait till you draw then fetch if you don't need the land drop atm.
About Nimble....I love him, but in this particular shell he isn't needed.
In the original thresh build you land t1 nimble and aside from sac spells you didn't need to protect him with counters. You saved your counters for opposing Tarmos and what not.
With this build you save your counters to protect your guys, similar to playing New Horizons, because with the grim collar combo you aren't afraid of opposing creatures.
Both decks are thresh type builds, but in my opinion they both play much more differently.
BTW, can you tell me how to find the embedded code to load a video into an article. I copied my mtgo games using camstudio, but can' figure out how to get them on my mtgo article.
Raddman, Thresh is definitely an archetype I will try in the very near future. A few questions: Do you think that 2x Grim Lavamancer would work instead of 3x? 3 seems a bit too much to me. What do you think of Nimble Mongoose? Grim Lavamancer or Nimble Mongoose? And finally, Ponder or Preordain?
Whiffy, what can I say, you're "da man"!! Seriously, thanks for all the help man. Much appreciated.
Hey oh. Really cool to see me all over an article thats not mine. Heh. I remember all this, and with your counter thopters list i would look at cutting the crucible. Ive played a lot of thopters in my day, and thats the one card I never really liked.
Legacy has lots of power no doubt, thats why it is the 2nd most popular format in magic. Classic makes legacy look like block though, so come to the most powerful side and get in on the joke.
So yea, I would really enjoy seeing another message in my inbox about learning classic. Use thoe winnings and credits and get some oaths, drains, led's if u have the scratch. You basic blue Classic shell is already in place from Legacy. Take stand still core add
demonic, vampiric tutor, imperial seal, time vault, voltaic key, mana vault, mana crypt, sol ring, and 4 mana drain, and blammo you have all the parts of a tier 1 classic deck, for roughly 120 tix.
I don't think P2P1 is completely well-reasoned. Just because you didn't know exactly how the draft was going to pan out doesn't mean you throw away all your options and take a card you're scared of playing against. EVERY draft is like that, there's no clear-cut answer all the time.
In P2P6 I don't understand the reasoning you gave. Because you have three double-white drops, you want to play more myr on turn 2 so you can play Skyhunters later in the game? Wouldn't it be better to just eschew myr altogether and just play a bunch of plains so you don't have to slow down while playing 2/2 fliers for two in order to color fix for a turn?
P2P2 - I'm not a big fan of favoring the off-color myr vs the Trinket Mage. You're in blue/white, so Trinket Mage is in perhaps its best colors since it can grab Origin Spellbomb for bunches of card advantage, as well as maybe a Lifestaff or an Axe to go with your fliers, which I'm sure you'll have quite a few of since you're in blue and white. (P5P2 you even would get the Spellbomb instead of having to take a rather bland Warden)
That's really the only thing I saw that I completely disagreed with. Good job on the win. :)
Another great read olaw. If I remember correctly I think I played out the Bane on turn 3 in the last game to try to keep him of the early Stinkdrinker and I had not seen any removal other than the Tendrils in the previous games. Unfortunately he did have removal and it turned out to be a bad play putting it out when I did lol. He had such a fast game 2 on me I felt I needed to have something out to slow him down game 3. Congrats on winning the tourney Gonzales, you ran the deck great and deserved the win :)
Like I said in the comments for my deck there were times when it felt too slow and the final match was one of those times. I really liked running the Rock deck, when it worked it felt like I was in such control that I could not lose. I am open to suggestions about how to improve my list, I tryed a few differant things and each time I changed it around it seemed to be worse than the list I ran for this tournament.
I agree the same could be said for Legacy. I guess your opinion of what "fires well" varies quite a bit from mine, and the one of the writer of this article. Legacy will fall into this same void in a year or two, let's not forget it's still fairly "shiny and new". Then's there is the fact that it's not a matter of the staples when comparing Classic vs. Legacy, it's the banned cards in Legacy that are legal in Classic(see Tolarian Academy) which manager to pull $10+. I'm sorry, but I for one(and thousands upon thousands of others) do not see just cause to buy pixels at that rate, especially when the rewards are just more pixels. It is good that WotC is putting some effort into combining paper event procedures into MTGO, but it's not there yet, it's not even close at this point. Why do you think Classic "isn't as popular"? Answer: The amount of people with these classic cards is a tiny fraction of the amount of people playing the game. This WILL NOT change unless more of these cards are introduced. Period.
The writing was good (of course, it's Peter Jahn) but the title was misleading. This article was a sealed event walkthrough, not a "survival guide for the UD release." It provided somewhat random commentary on cards good in a sealed event using all three urza's sets, but wasn't comprehensive in any way, and did not touch at all on triple UD drafting - one of the main events in a UD release. There also seemed to be a bit more gloating and self-congratulation than I prefer to read in a "survival guide" article (or anything else, for that matter).
I agree that when you are drafting Urza's, you are usually playing with a pretty tough crowd. I played in a half dozen triple UD drafts, and never once saw a card played that was weak, or deck that wasn't well-built. Honestly, I'm not sure how people have so rapidly mastered a format that is brand new. Either they are excellent drafters, or play this format extensively (traders?) during the period that triple UD is available (or both). Kind of a shame, really. I really wish they would make swiss available for these brief events with a new format. It's hard to get skill with a new set when you have trouble making it past the first round.
And yet it fires very well. I'm pretty sure your complaints as to the entry costs for for Classic are made moot by the fact Legacy is just as dependent (maybe more so) on the same expensive cards, and yet fires frequently.
Classic simply isn't as popular right now. Full stop.
Unfortunately I had major technical difficulties this time around. All the video I first shot for the article was lost other than the first game against Jund. I was able to save game two but unable to attach audio commentary.
Classic will never fire more frequently as long as too many of the staple cards are prohibitively expensive...FoW, The tutors(vamp,enlight,etc.)I could go on and on. If WoTC really wanted Classic to be an active format, they would stop worrying about the "collector" side of the game and just print/release more copies of these high level cards. It's the same in paper MTG, nearly no one has moxes, lotus, recalls, heck even Dual Lands are fairly scarce(comparatively) With online, I understand there is no "limit" to how many are in the market, but they could help with promo's and rewards cards that aren't Oona's Blackguard or Giant Growth. Now with the mythic rares they only exacerbated the problem because the planeswalkers are super powerful but all ridiculously expensive. Classic is reserved for the long time collector/player or the wealthy, it is not for the common player.
Very cool deck and it is nice to see something for standard that is easy on the wallet. The only thing is that your last video didn't have any sound when I played it which is a shame cause your commentary makes these videos very enjoyable
I like the deck, but mind sludge is making you swerve too much to black, while you could just opt to play Bloodhusk Ritualist and do the same. Hey, it even got a body to swing with!
More than that, it allows you to play Garruk. Garruk loves him, as he can untap 2 more swamps to kick to.
And I hear garruk works quite well with persecutor, grave titan and wurmcoil tokens.
Furthermore, it allows you to play with Tectonic edge, adding another nail to some coffins..
T1 swamp, IOK
T2 forest, explore, land
T3 land, garruk, untap to keep doomblade mana open or create a 3/3 token.
T4 land, float 2 black, untap with garruk, kick Bloodhusk Ritualist 4 times.
I like the hexmages and BSZ in the side.
here, might as well post my deck. Hit me up on MTGO to play some matches (name: 152710):
3 Bloodhust ritualist
1 glissa, traitor
1 moriok replica
4 acidic slimes
2 grave titan
1 wurmcoil engine
3 persecutor golem
4 doomblade
4 IoK
2 cultivate
1 mimic Vat
4 Explore
3 Garruk
2 Liliana
25 lands:
9 forest
8 swamp
4 verdant catacomb
4 tectinic edge
SB:
4 Baloth
3 hexmage
3 memoricite
3 BZS
2 Duress
Well, I know you're right about Daze. Actually whiffy told me to drop them when he saw the list but I kept them in. I don't know, I think Daze is one of those cards I like having around.
And besides, I will replace them with Mental Misstep after NPH's release, so the problem will be solved automatically.
LE
also one thing i think is often overlooked by people touting urza's block EV, is that will the packs contain more valuable cards on avg than alot of sets, the competetion is much tougher, release events aside for the most part. There just arent alot of wet behind the ears 1600 level players toiling in the uz ques....which has to be a factor if you are picking a format to play for some profit...i know your article wasnt really aimed at the profit side, but therealgangster addressed it in his articles about uz and i just wanted to offer a counter point.
Nice article, i really enjoy uz block, not so much because i think it is a great well thought out block, more just because it offers something different on mtgo and provides some powerful constructed cards for a variety of formats...It could def use some more exploration now that UD is online. On the flip side, i have mixed feelings about the events, the cost is high, and the payout which should be uzulud, is instead all ud, and i cant see any scenerio under which destiny boosters will ever be worth anything at all after the triple UD drafts stop firing...also triple destiny might be the worst draft format i have ever played, just awful. however i might have a more optimistic outlook if i opened metalworker!
Why are you advocating DAZE in a landstill deck??? STOP IT!
In all seriousness the deck looks good Erman, but you really should take those dazes out and immediately replace them with:
+1 Snare
+1 Counterspell
+1 Standstill
+1 Jace/Wasteland (money I know, but it's better than a card that ruins all tempo that you NEED to create)
Liked the article,
The_Hoff/abstrakt66
Thanks for the free booster. The Consecrated Sphinx was something I was looking to get a singleton of.
I forgot to update the winnning deck's link, here's the correct one:
http://www.mtgotraders.com/deck/viewdeck.php?ID=5597
--
Dave
Great cast guys. Didn't have time before to comment before when I listened, but I wanted to post something to let you know I am glad you are continuing this. I missed hearing Erik's voice but it was almost like I could hear his responses in between the pauses. Thanks again.
if 4 Mishra's and 4 Wasteland seems like too much colorless mana, did you consider running 2-3 copies Treetop Village or Creeping Tar Pit as your man-land? I guess "comes into play tapped" is a pretty big drawback for a land in the format but the creature half is arguably better.
When I made P2P1, I chukled. I rolled my eyes at myself. I was happy how the pick worked out after the fact. At the time I just thought, "this is stupid, but..." I was very lucky to have as good of a pack 2 as I did especially since I threw away the first pick.
I played 10 Plains to six Mountains and was still happy to have Gold Myr just in case. It could be the difference between a turn three Skyhunter or Skyguard vs a too late Skyhunter or Skyguard.
Somewhat related story: Today I had my first MBS first pick in white, Phyrexian Rebirth. I didn't play it. When scouting I found that another player also opened a Phyrexian Rebirth, and another still opened White Suns's Zenith.
Upload the video to youtube, get the embedded code, come back here and open your article and hit the "source" button on the upper left, paste the code, hit "source" again and voila; the video is there.
LE
Really good article and nice to see you come on the legacy ground. This format is so deep and so interesting, I guess you'll have enough matter to write for the 10 futher years only about it...
I especialy enjoyed all the part of the article about jacestill because it remembers me very well why I love this deck and this format so much. A cunning wish variation is also interesting in this build btw.
3x Hasn't been to clumpy and he is often a kill target, so having access to 3 isn't a terrible thing. You can always ponder or brainstorm fetch away extras when you don't need them.
Ponder is better imo, you can dig 3 deep and lets say you want to keep only the top 2, just wait till you draw then fetch if you don't need the land drop atm.
About Nimble....I love him, but in this particular shell he isn't needed.
In the original thresh build you land t1 nimble and aside from sac spells you didn't need to protect him with counters. You saved your counters for opposing Tarmos and what not.
With this build you save your counters to protect your guys, similar to playing New Horizons, because with the grim collar combo you aren't afraid of opposing creatures.
Both decks are thresh type builds, but in my opinion they both play much more differently.
BTW, can you tell me how to find the embedded code to load a video into an article. I copied my mtgo games using camstudio, but can' figure out how to get them on my mtgo article.
Hi guys, thanks for the comments.
Raddman, Thresh is definitely an archetype I will try in the very near future. A few questions: Do you think that 2x Grim Lavamancer would work instead of 3x? 3 seems a bit too much to me. What do you think of Nimble Mongoose? Grim Lavamancer or Nimble Mongoose? And finally, Ponder or Preordain?
Whiffy, what can I say, you're "da man"!! Seriously, thanks for all the help man. Much appreciated.
Thanks again for the comments.
LE
Hey oh. Really cool to see me all over an article thats not mine. Heh. I remember all this, and with your counter thopters list i would look at cutting the crucible. Ive played a lot of thopters in my day, and thats the one card I never really liked.
Legacy has lots of power no doubt, thats why it is the 2nd most popular format in magic. Classic makes legacy look like block though, so come to the most powerful side and get in on the joke.
So yea, I would really enjoy seeing another message in my inbox about learning classic. Use thoe winnings and credits and get some oaths, drains, led's if u have the scratch. You basic blue Classic shell is already in place from Legacy. Take stand still core add
demonic, vampiric tutor, imperial seal, time vault, voltaic key, mana vault, mana crypt, sol ring, and 4 mana drain, and blammo you have all the parts of a tier 1 classic deck, for roughly 120 tix.
I don't think P2P1 is completely well-reasoned. Just because you didn't know exactly how the draft was going to pan out doesn't mean you throw away all your options and take a card you're scared of playing against. EVERY draft is like that, there's no clear-cut answer all the time.
In P2P6 I don't understand the reasoning you gave. Because you have three double-white drops, you want to play more myr on turn 2 so you can play Skyhunters later in the game? Wouldn't it be better to just eschew myr altogether and just play a bunch of plains so you don't have to slow down while playing 2/2 fliers for two in order to color fix for a turn?
P2P2 - I'm not a big fan of favoring the off-color myr vs the Trinket Mage. You're in blue/white, so Trinket Mage is in perhaps its best colors since it can grab Origin Spellbomb for bunches of card advantage, as well as maybe a Lifestaff or an Axe to go with your fliers, which I'm sure you'll have quite a few of since you're in blue and white. (P5P2 you even would get the Spellbomb instead of having to take a rather bland Warden)
That's really the only thing I saw that I completely disagreed with. Good job on the win. :)