Thanks for the comments guys! Yes there are a lot of interesting "color hosers" in the block, but even though they are occasionally useful, they aren't always so. I did completely miss the original fetchlands, which anyone on a budget should consider. Although they come into play tapped, missing the one turn isn't a big a deal in this slower format.
I like the Taniwha deck, especially the inclusion of Shimmering Efreet and Teferi's Puzzle Box. Those sort of off-set the harsher cards like Sunder and Land Equilibrium. Glad you were able to make something playable with that guy.
Feel free to mention other cards you guys liked that I may have missed. I went through an entire block, and had to cut a few cards.
Also, I meant Praetor's Grasp, and I have no idea how phasing works online.
Edit - Was talking with Elbinac online, and he noted that Morinfen and Gallowbraid could be used in conjunction with Soul Conduit, Mirror Universe and Magus of the Mirror. Add Repay in Kind, Exsanguinate and some tutors and you have the basics for a deck. Seems like it could be interesting.
there are just enough griffins to make it viable. Of course Zuberi and his griffins wont be strong. I already have a decklist but I never got around to making it.
Fun article. I have very fond memories of this block as it is what was new when I first started playing.
Back then I had a Griffin tribal deck and Zuberi Golden Feather was like the coolest card in the world to me. I have always wanted to revisit him as a commander just for nostalgia's sake. If they keep printing new griffins perhaps someday.
I used to use Spectral Guardian in my equipment deck. The fact that it also shrouded my opponent artifacts burned my multiple times though, so I removed him. He is still pretty cool.
I was a bit sad to see that Kukemssa Pirates did not make the list. I have always cosidered them a real hidden gem with a heck of a powerful effect. Kind of a proto Thada Adel.
Other things from that block I find pretty useful for commander. I really like the CITP fetchlands, great for budget mana fixing. Bosium Strip can be quite powerful in decks running a lot of spells. Elephant Grass gives mono green a nice propaganda effect. Brood of Cockroaches is one of those pesky "never dies" black creatures that nobody ever seems to use. It is just begging to be part of some sacrifice engine.
I also just noticed Steel Golem seems like something really nasty to donate in the new Zedruu decks that are going to be built.
I have like 25 decks and not an abundance of tix so the build anything you want to try to break the format or find the next best thing is pretty feasible. I never found anyting too degenerate, but always had bad luck vs quest for the holy relic decks, like them drawing 1 land 5 zero cc creatures + quest in their opener to stop my two mana solution in one event was fun
I had a mishra's deck I did pretty well with one event, I ran a toolbox version with 4 trinket mages and 4 of the elf that searches for a 6cc creature (feral empath maybe) 2 artisan of kozilek a grozoth a steel hellkite, a tornado elemental and the unearth leviathan. for artifacts I ran to remove a a creature totem thesnake maker at double x and the x equip and relic of progentitus. recross the pahs was pretty sweet in there too.
Cool. I wonder how EH was able to pull together such great graphs for the online cards. Is there a site like Black Lotus that is dedicated to online card pricing charts? I don't know of one and I would love too.
I basically included instant card draw and mana producing artifact/creatures. Tons of card draw for everyone and I use evacuation or mass bounce to reset the board. You could replace howling mines with cards like time reversal but I didn't want to spend too much $ on this deck.
Since phasing happens during upkeep, the point was to use the mana from the lands during upkeep. I included extra turns but they are used to get that extra turn to compensate for the tempo lose with taniwha.
The deck is a total hit or a miss. If I get get the combo to go off, it's a win.
There are couple of combos other than Taniwha. This deck is runs somewhat similar to Patron of the Moon now that I look at it again.
I do use Black Lotus, but mainly for comparisons. Black Lotus tracks online trading of paper cards. In most cases, the prices are comparable, but there are exceptions.
Vindicate:
MTGOTraders.com: $71.28
Black Lotus: $23.50
Candelabra of Tawnos:
MTGOTrades.com: $8.50
Black Lotus $ 172.00
Those are just extreme examples, but paper and online do vary.
I think there was a miss on the reason for FOWs drop in price. Mostly that more are entering the system as evident by the large numbers in stock at the shops. ALL the shops. Also, Jace TMS may have appeared to level off but this is partly due to the fact it is not actually banned as of yet. Players of STD still have until the end of the month and if I was a STD player with a rock star deck that is making it to prizes...I would not sell out on the Jace until the very end. Look for a second dip the first part of the new month...but not for long. Of course these are speculation into the future so its like an opinion...and those are like butt holes. =)
As always, great work on the prices. As for being able to add charts like Eric did in the past I think you can achieve what you want with the info at http://blacklotusproject.com. I don't know if you regular this site but I would not be surprised if you do.
I too was surprised by this article's content. :D I haven't played Heirloom since Xeno and I parted ways but I have considered it occasionally. I think the thing that really stops me from building for and playing it is at some point it crossed over from a very fringe, somewhat casual format to yet another variant of broken stuff on a budget (ala pauper.)
DreadWaffle's method of building in the format is the most sensible by far. Particularly if you have tix sitting around. Being able to build basically anything the legal list allows on a few tix does make it an attractive format for the spikes looking to cash in.
A classic pre would be good im sure, as a collector's format it's probably for a lot of people something they enjoy but dont want to risk too much on without a lot of practice and all the cards they want to play with.
Great overview as usual. I use to read these articles taking notes of missed cards I should add to my collection/decks (this time the list amounts to 12!).
I didn't get the link between Grinning Totem and Praetor's Counsel though. I suspect you intended to mention some other card?
nothing against heirloom, but that is the niche format.
classic is core supported format by wotc. filters, b and r and events all run in the system. heirloom is none of those things. also as paul said one has an entry fee and one is free... classic probably has a larger player base, but im not sure on heirlooms numbers. i would say there are at least 200 people in modo that have a comp classic deck built at all times. your comment does have merit though as you guys fire and we dont. maybe we need to start up a pre for classic?...
loved the cast guys, sad to miss it. went 20 deep in a row. i guess my excuse was valid though ;)
I won't be playing Quest for a while, but I found that Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang is a really good secondary equip if you happen to pop two Quests in the same game. Right now, I'm trying to make Mishra work, and I really like that one too. :)
Sidar Jabari is really equivelent to a 3/3 because of the flanking. Only another flanker negates that combat advantage (one way to kill an opposing Stuffy Doll by the way for lols.)
Spirit of the Night, has pro black. Not quite as useful as Pro White. Also, with him as your commander can you run the Nightstalkers and fetch him from the command zone? (That was how people used him in old MBC.)
I consider Miraculous Recovery to be a staple as it just fits very nicely with other white/green recursion cards (Hymn of Rebirth). As an instant it can be a combat trick along with Cauldron Dance and Corpse Dance.
I remember our discussions about this block. I guess I was wrong that there wasn't enough meat in just the Mirage Cycle to make an adequate review. Good Job.
The Saturday War Mark events are full. They were full when I tried to sign up at 4am PDT, Friday morning. Wizards had added additional events - instead of the originally scheduled 4 events, with 256 players each, Wizards had added an addition 20 events. That's a total of 6,144 players, or 30,070 warmarks redeemed.
That's a lot.
I hope Wizards adds a lot more events. I really want to redeem my Warmarks.
Maybe this is more of a niche format than you guys concede. I've never seen an heirloom event not fire, and it doesnt even have an auto-filter on modo.
Thanks for the comments guys! Yes there are a lot of interesting "color hosers" in the block, but even though they are occasionally useful, they aren't always so. I did completely miss the original fetchlands, which anyone on a budget should consider. Although they come into play tapped, missing the one turn isn't a big a deal in this slower format.
I like the Taniwha deck, especially the inclusion of Shimmering Efreet and Teferi's Puzzle Box. Those sort of off-set the harsher cards like Sunder and Land Equilibrium. Glad you were able to make something playable with that guy.
Feel free to mention other cards you guys liked that I may have missed. I went through an entire block, and had to cut a few cards.
Also, I meant Praetor's Grasp, and I have no idea how phasing works online.
Edit - Was talking with Elbinac online, and he noted that Morinfen and Gallowbraid could be used in conjunction with Soul Conduit, Mirror Universe and Magus of the Mirror. Add Repay in Kind, Exsanguinate and some tutors and you have the basics for a deck. Seems like it could be interesting.
there are just enough griffins to make it viable. Of course Zuberi and his griffins wont be strong. I already have a decklist but I never got around to making it.
right I meant that I use instant speed draw since you always have left over mana.
Fun article. I have very fond memories of this block as it is what was new when I first started playing.
Back then I had a Griffin tribal deck and Zuberi Golden Feather was like the coolest card in the world to me. I have always wanted to revisit him as a commander just for nostalgia's sake. If they keep printing new griffins perhaps someday.
I used to use Spectral Guardian in my equipment deck. The fact that it also shrouded my opponent artifacts burned my multiple times though, so I removed him. He is still pretty cool.
I was a bit sad to see that Kukemssa Pirates did not make the list. I have always cosidered them a real hidden gem with a heck of a powerful effect. Kind of a proto Thada Adel.
Other things from that block I find pretty useful for commander. I really like the CITP fetchlands, great for budget mana fixing. Bosium Strip can be quite powerful in decks running a lot of spells. Elephant Grass gives mono green a nice propaganda effect. Brood of Cockroaches is one of those pesky "never dies" black creatures that nobody ever seems to use. It is just begging to be part of some sacrifice engine.
I also just noticed Steel Golem seems like something really nasty to donate in the new Zedruu decks that are going to be built.
This is actually NPH...
I get a list of prices from MTGOTraders.com weekly. Over time, I will be able to build up a timeline, and graphs. Not there yet.
I have like 25 decks and not an abundance of tix so the build anything you want to try to break the format or find the next best thing is pretty feasible. I never found anyting too degenerate, but always had bad luck vs quest for the holy relic decks, like them drawing 1 land 5 zero cc creatures + quest in their opener to stop my two mana solution in one event was fun
I had a mishra's deck I did pretty well with one event, I ran a toolbox version with 4 trinket mages and 4 of the elf that searches for a 6cc creature (feral empath maybe) 2 artisan of kozilek a grozoth a steel hellkite, a tornado elemental and the unearth leviathan. for artifacts I ran to remove a a creature totem thesnake maker at double x and the x equip and relic of progentitus. recross the pahs was pretty sweet in there too.
I don't know if its different online, but phasing should happen in the untap step, right before the untapping.
Cool. I wonder how EH was able to pull together such great graphs for the online cards. Is there a site like Black Lotus that is dedicated to online card pricing charts? I don't know of one and I would love too.
I basically included instant card draw and mana producing artifact/creatures. Tons of card draw for everyone and I use evacuation or mass bounce to reset the board. You could replace howling mines with cards like time reversal but I didn't want to spend too much $ on this deck.
Since phasing happens during upkeep, the point was to use the mana from the lands during upkeep. I included extra turns but they are used to get that extra turn to compensate for the tempo lose with taniwha.
The deck is a total hit or a miss. If I get get the combo to go off, it's a win.
There are couple of combos other than Taniwha. This deck is runs somewhat similar to Patron of the Moon now that I look at it again.
In case anyone was interested, this is my decklist for Taniwha
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Font of Mythos
1 Howling Mine
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sisay's Ring
1 Sky Diamond
1 Sol Grail
1 Sol Ring
1 Teferi's Puzzle Box
1 Temple Bell
1 Ur-Golem's Eye
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Worldslayer
1 Duplicant
1 Palladium Myr
1 Scuttlemutt
1 Silver Myr
1 Solemn Simulacrum
30 Island
1 Aether Adept
1 Aethersnipe
1 Clone
1 Kederekt Leviathan
1 Man-o'-War
1 Shimmering Efreet
1 Sphinx of Magosi
1 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1 Land Equilibrium
1 Teferi's Curse
1 Vanishing
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Capsize
1 Evacuation
1 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Opportunity
1 Quicken
1 Repulse
1 Sunder
1 Twincast
1 Maze of Ith
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Terrain Generator
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Taniwha
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Distorting Wake
1 Fabricate
1 Inundate
1 Personal Tutor
1 Rite of Replication
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Stretch
1 Wash Out
1 Windfall
I do use Black Lotus, but mainly for comparisons. Black Lotus tracks online trading of paper cards. In most cases, the prices are comparable, but there are exceptions.
Vindicate:
MTGOTraders.com: $71.28
Black Lotus: $23.50
Candelabra of Tawnos:
MTGOTrades.com: $8.50
Black Lotus $ 172.00
Those are just extreme examples, but paper and online do vary.
I think there was a miss on the reason for FOWs drop in price. Mostly that more are entering the system as evident by the large numbers in stock at the shops. ALL the shops. Also, Jace TMS may have appeared to level off but this is partly due to the fact it is not actually banned as of yet. Players of STD still have until the end of the month and if I was a STD player with a rock star deck that is making it to prizes...I would not sell out on the Jace until the very end. Look for a second dip the first part of the new month...but not for long. Of course these are speculation into the future so its like an opinion...and those are like butt holes. =)
As always, great work on the prices. As for being able to add charts like Eric did in the past I think you can achieve what you want with the info at http://blacklotusproject.com. I don't know if you regular this site but I would not be surprised if you do.
Keep up the stellar work.
I too was surprised by this article's content. :D I haven't played Heirloom since Xeno and I parted ways but I have considered it occasionally. I think the thing that really stops me from building for and playing it is at some point it crossed over from a very fringe, somewhat casual format to yet another variant of broken stuff on a budget (ala pauper.)
DreadWaffle's method of building in the format is the most sensible by far. Particularly if you have tix sitting around. Being able to build basically anything the legal list allows on a few tix does make it an attractive format for the spikes looking to cash in.
Praetor's Grasp
A classic pre would be good im sure, as a collector's format it's probably for a lot of people something they enjoy but dont want to risk too much on without a lot of practice and all the cards they want to play with.
youre right.
Great overview as usual. I use to read these articles taking notes of missed cards I should add to my collection/decks (this time the list amounts to 12!).
I didn't get the link between Grinning Totem and Praetor's Counsel though. I suspect you intended to mention some other card?
nothing against heirloom, but that is the niche format.
classic is core supported format by wotc. filters, b and r and events all run in the system. heirloom is none of those things. also as paul said one has an entry fee and one is free... classic probably has a larger player base, but im not sure on heirlooms numbers. i would say there are at least 200 people in modo that have a comp classic deck built at all times. your comment does have merit though as you guys fire and we dont. maybe we need to start up a pre for classic?...
loved the cast guys, sad to miss it. went 20 deep in a row. i guess my excuse was valid though ;)
I won't be playing Quest for a while, but I found that Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang is a really good secondary equip if you happen to pop two Quests in the same game. Right now, I'm trying to make Mishra work, and I really like that one too. :)
A big difference is cost. It costs $ for someone to join an officially sanctioned event. Heirloom events (afaik) have never cost anything.
A couple notes --
Sidar Jabari is really equivelent to a 3/3 because of the flanking. Only another flanker negates that combat advantage (one way to kill an opposing Stuffy Doll by the way for lols.)
Spirit of the Night, has pro black. Not quite as useful as Pro White. Also, with him as your commander can you run the Nightstalkers and fetch him from the command zone? (That was how people used him in old MBC.)
I consider Miraculous Recovery to be a staple as it just fits very nicely with other white/green recursion cards (Hymn of Rebirth). As an instant it can be a combat trick along with Cauldron Dance and Corpse Dance.
I remember our discussions about this block. I guess I was wrong that there wasn't enough meat in just the Mirage Cycle to make an adequate review. Good Job.
The Saturday War Mark events are full. They were full when I tried to sign up at 4am PDT, Friday morning. Wizards had added additional events - instead of the originally scheduled 4 events, with 256 players each, Wizards had added an addition 20 events. That's a total of 6,144 players, or 30,070 warmarks redeemed.
That's a lot.
I hope Wizards adds a lot more events. I really want to redeem my Warmarks.
Maybe this is more of a niche format than you guys concede. I've never seen an heirloom event not fire, and it doesnt even have an auto-filter on modo.