I can count on one hand the times I have had a frost titan killed, they are down 2 mana by the time it hits play and it is usually on or around turn 5. No deck in standard kills it for less than 4 mana and most decks need even more mana to kill it.
If your opponent has removal they arent waiting to kill your creatures till you pod them. There is a slight exception with slime being a 2/2 (vulnerable to more forms of removal) but creeping mold is that powerful in this deck and it is worth the risk.
The plans are very complimentary. The 2 plans are Splinter twin and birthing pod. Birthing pod uses etb effects for value and splinter twin is best on etb creatures. (And yes you do play splinter twin on non-exarch creatures when you can guarantee value)
Hells yeah. I am going to be playing snakes in casual modern fo' sho'. There are lots of decks that people like to pla which aren't nearly powerful enough to play even in a casual legacy game, but which will be fun to rock into each other in casual modern.
(that said, I am also looking forward to playing dragonstorm in modern!)
Acidic Slime is not an ideal value target for Birthing Pod, since they can kill it with the ETB trigger on the stack, leaving you unable to use the pod. Compare this to precursor Golem, which guarantees you value if you have a birthing pod out (If they kill it with the trigger on the stack, you get 2 3/3s. If they let it resolve, you can use birthing pod and still get 2 3/3's before they can remove it).
Frost Titan gives you no value with pod, and you have nothing to chain it into, which means you must intend to win the game with that creature. That would be fine in a control deck but without any removal that isn't a plan. At least a card like Consecrated Sphinx can draw you into your combo and refill your hand, and a card like wurmcoil is a perfect sacrifice outlet, survives a sweeper and is game over vs most aggro decks.
This deck does not seem to have complimentary plans nor a strong engine + toolbox. To say it is full of value when it has 5 value creatures (8 being generous with nest invader) is a stretch.
Playing Karn like a champion. Well done sir! One of the best drafts I've seen online in a long time. Still think Bonehoard was the right pick but can't really argue with the kind of success you just had.
Amazing draft but honestly, do you know what Bonehoard does?! It's like picking between a bomb that can win games by itself and a doomblade that kills the bomb. It really makes no sense. However, amazing draft and I'm looking forward to watching the matches.
Birthing Pod is usually a 4 drop hence the nest invader. Wing splicer is currently darkslick drake waiting to be upgraded to Solemn simulacrum. Acidic slime is great in the chain or on turn 3 off a cobra. And creeping mold + a body to continue chaining is definitely worth the card slots.
Acidic slime chaining into frost titan is the main control setup for this deck; taking away two of your opponents mana sources in one turn can be devastating.
The deck is full of value off of birthing pod.
You often beat UB off a fast start constricting their mana. And preordain finds the core cards in Splinter twin / birthing pod.
No one knows what cards Wizards will reprint, but the entire reason behind Modern existing is for them to be able to reprint in demand cards in an eternal format.
Reprinting FOW and whatever else (in paper) will not make legacy that much cheaper since other in demand cards will simply rise, such as duals and other cards on the reserve list.
Whether they reprint what will be modern staples in standard, I have no idea. What they can (and will) do is keep modern cards priced similar to standard, aka continually available. To do that they will need to reprint cards through dual decks, ftv or whatever, the staples, particularly those which are also played in legacy such as Goyf.
I don't get this deck at all, the creature choices are baffling. Why Nest Invader instead of Viridian Emissary if you aren't powering out 4 drops? Why play Wing Splicer? Why so many Acidic Slimes - it is the only 5 in your chain, it is bad as land death, and you shouldn't need to kill that many equipment or enchantments.
Frost Titan is OK in a control deck as another form of disruption, but in this deck it seems pointless, it isn't aggressive and the deck has 0 other disruptive elements (Deceiver Exarch is not sufficiently disruptive)
You are down a card whenever you play Birthing Pod, so each activation should be worth a card, or at least gain you value, but other than Oracle and a single (bad) splicer, there is no value. How do you beat a deck like U/B control that will 1/1 you and has card draw/card advantage and big finishers? Preordain only seems useful for finding splinter twins, but this just seems like a bad Splinter Twin deck, and you have no way to guarantee going off since you have no counters.
Seems like a bad aggro deck and a bad splinter twin deck were thrown together.
I understand your feelings. I don't think you need to sweat it too much though; this article tends towards Spike-interest due to all the tournament info it has. However, if you read any of the bunches of EDH stuff that comes through each week, or the tribal this or dragons that type articles that also are published throughout the week on Pure, you'll feel a little better. Pure has consistently improved (most of the time) over the last 2+ years, going from a site with little editting and mostly-bad articles to a site with videos and mostly-really-good articles.
I've been playing around with a Skullbriar deck this weekend. It's built around protecting him, putting extra counters on him, making sure he gets damage through, and removal. It's a lot of fun. I've had skullbriar up to 26/26 after a soul's might. You need to build counters quickly, if he's small in the mid to late game he's almost no threat to anyone.
Props:
The Splash Page had fairly priced beverages (and other stuff too, but a lot of stores will dollar-you for a soda) and a fast tournament (Deck building + 5 rounds in under 5 hours)
A dude named Ian was sitting next to me playing against A Small Child. Said Small Child was smashing him with a 9/9 trampler with Pro: Creatures. "AHAH YOU CAN'T TAKE A 9/9?" the kid was saying as Ian uncomfortable sat through it.
After game two the kid said, "Yea! I won!? Two games! Against you! Wow!" Ol' Ian took it in good stride, so he did good too. Apparently it was a big deal for A Small Child.
Slops
To me for being indecisive and missing two least 1 attack for 1 that would have probably won me the game in Round 3.
Goyf is not on the reserve list, but that does not mean that Wizards will necessarily reprint it anytime soon. They might, if it fits well in a set or special collection (e.g. Commander deck or FtV: something), but no guarantees. There are thousands of cool cards not on the reserve list that have never bee reprints (and lots of bad ones, too.)
Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as "hating". I just hate it when the only POV we get about cards is whether they fit in tournament decks. And i hate being dismissed, as Katastrophe seemed to be doing, just because my concerns don't mesh with the needs of the tourney players.
To restate my point, I think the proposed modern format will be just as appealing to casual players, many of whom are a little intimidated by the size of the legacy card pool, as it is to potential tournament players. This format would allow me to dust off some of my old casual extended decks from before they truncated the format... decks that are simply out of place in legacy or classic, even amongst casual players. And I guess I'm completely alone in that opinion because the only response I got was to have Katastrophe completely ignore the point and act like I was talking about tournament decks.
No cards in futuresight were promised to be preprints - some would, some was incl. to spoil flavor of future worlds, some were redherrings. In this case it (together with some other card, I think) spoiled the planeswalker card type.
I suspect that wizards might reprint it at some point because, 1. it wasn't played that much in standard (bg discard played it, but I cant remember any other deck with it) 2. it would sell packs...
On the other hand some ppl would dislike it getting reprinted...
I've been playing the deluxered deck in a lot of playtests and it seems kind of weak. Maybe I'm not chaining correctly, but I do seem to have a lot of trouble against any kind of deck that has a counterspell, green decks that use the +1 life shaman, and anything that gets out fast infect, or even fast 1/1 and 2/2.
I'm not seeing many of the early turn kills. I'll record some just to see what others think.
*edit* Trimming some of the recordings now, but I was almost never able to go turn 2-4 with a remote chance of kill. I played a lot of decks that just had answers for everything DeluxRed attempted to do. Will Upload.
char49d brought up a great point about tarmogoyf becoming huge if modern becomes a more popular format. but it's from future sight with the reprint border surrounding it so it will be reprinted eventually right? or has wizards changed their minds and put the card on the no reprint list?
being a spike is bad and loathsome as far as people i like to play against. I know a good number of admitted spikes though and they tend to be pretty awesome guys and the ones i know are friendly to even help new players deck build, tweak, and test. Besides some of the spikiest players make the best casual fun decks in things like commander.
Pete, if you want to avoid the modern/overextended debate but still accede to deck price requests, you might ask the overextended crowd for a recent winning decklist that is modern legal - that way everyone wins.
No but you act like being a spike is a bad thing or loathsome (see "spiky spikerson". All points of views have generally been welcomed at puremtgo, but the speculation on Modern cards isn't for fun, it's for another potential sanctioned format...
Bite me, I've been commenting here for 2 years now. I'm a casual player and I make no apologies for it, I've generally felt fairly welcome here at PureMTGO. Or is this a Spike only website now?
"...keep mentioning modern and overextended, but the reality is very very very few people play those formats. ..."
Me and the hundreds of people that have shown up for Tuesday Night Overextended over the past month would tend to disagree with that statement. Dunno 'bout Modern, but Overextended is "live & kickin'".
Nicol Bolas didn't see play in standard. Without CB/Top and Thopter/Sword, you will see very different control decks, where cards like Teferi and mystical teachings are heavily played. Not having cards like Brainstorm, FOW and Daze completely changes a format, especially control and decks that prey on control/combo like merfolk.
No Swords, Hymn, Vindicate, Deed, Wasteland, factory, the format will look NOTHING like legacy. Porting over Zoo in a meta where people are prepared to face creatures is not going to be the same. I format without Counterspell is not going to be the same.
I can count on one hand the times I have had a frost titan killed, they are down 2 mana by the time it hits play and it is usually on or around turn 5. No deck in standard kills it for less than 4 mana and most decks need even more mana to kill it.
If your opponent has removal they arent waiting to kill your creatures till you pod them. There is a slight exception with slime being a 2/2 (vulnerable to more forms of removal) but creeping mold is that powerful in this deck and it is worth the risk.
The plans are very complimentary. The 2 plans are Splinter twin and birthing pod. Birthing pod uses etb effects for value and splinter twin is best on etb creatures. (And yes you do play splinter twin on non-exarch creatures when you can guarantee value)
Hells yeah. I am going to be playing snakes in casual modern fo' sho'. There are lots of decks that people like to pla which aren't nearly powerful enough to play even in a casual legacy game, but which will be fun to rock into each other in casual modern.
(that said, I am also looking forward to playing dragonstorm in modern!)
Acidic Slime is not an ideal value target for Birthing Pod, since they can kill it with the ETB trigger on the stack, leaving you unable to use the pod. Compare this to precursor Golem, which guarantees you value if you have a birthing pod out (If they kill it with the trigger on the stack, you get 2 3/3s. If they let it resolve, you can use birthing pod and still get 2 3/3's before they can remove it).
Frost Titan gives you no value with pod, and you have nothing to chain it into, which means you must intend to win the game with that creature. That would be fine in a control deck but without any removal that isn't a plan. At least a card like Consecrated Sphinx can draw you into your combo and refill your hand, and a card like wurmcoil is a perfect sacrifice outlet, survives a sweeper and is game over vs most aggro decks.
This deck does not seem to have complimentary plans nor a strong engine + toolbox. To say it is full of value when it has 5 value creatures (8 being generous with nest invader) is a stretch.
Playing Karn like a champion. Well done sir! One of the best drafts I've seen online in a long time. Still think Bonehoard was the right pick but can't really argue with the kind of success you just had.
Amazing draft but honestly, do you know what Bonehoard does?! It's like picking between a bomb that can win games by itself and a doomblade that kills the bomb. It really makes no sense. However, amazing draft and I'm looking forward to watching the matches.
Birthing Pod is usually a 4 drop hence the nest invader. Wing splicer is currently darkslick drake waiting to be upgraded to Solemn simulacrum. Acidic slime is great in the chain or on turn 3 off a cobra. And creeping mold + a body to continue chaining is definitely worth the card slots.
Acidic slime chaining into frost titan is the main control setup for this deck; taking away two of your opponents mana sources in one turn can be devastating.
The deck is full of value off of birthing pod.
You often beat UB off a fast start constricting their mana. And preordain finds the core cards in Splinter twin / birthing pod.
Thanks for the comment.
No one knows what cards Wizards will reprint, but the entire reason behind Modern existing is for them to be able to reprint in demand cards in an eternal format.
Reprinting FOW and whatever else (in paper) will not make legacy that much cheaper since other in demand cards will simply rise, such as duals and other cards on the reserve list.
Whether they reprint what will be modern staples in standard, I have no idea. What they can (and will) do is keep modern cards priced similar to standard, aka continually available. To do that they will need to reprint cards through dual decks, ftv or whatever, the staples, particularly those which are also played in legacy such as Goyf.
I don't get this deck at all, the creature choices are baffling. Why Nest Invader instead of Viridian Emissary if you aren't powering out 4 drops? Why play Wing Splicer? Why so many Acidic Slimes - it is the only 5 in your chain, it is bad as land death, and you shouldn't need to kill that many equipment or enchantments.
Frost Titan is OK in a control deck as another form of disruption, but in this deck it seems pointless, it isn't aggressive and the deck has 0 other disruptive elements (Deceiver Exarch is not sufficiently disruptive)
You are down a card whenever you play Birthing Pod, so each activation should be worth a card, or at least gain you value, but other than Oracle and a single (bad) splicer, there is no value. How do you beat a deck like U/B control that will 1/1 you and has card draw/card advantage and big finishers? Preordain only seems useful for finding splinter twins, but this just seems like a bad Splinter Twin deck, and you have no way to guarantee going off since you have no counters.
Seems like a bad aggro deck and a bad splinter twin deck were thrown together.
I understand your feelings. I don't think you need to sweat it too much though; this article tends towards Spike-interest due to all the tournament info it has. However, if you read any of the bunches of EDH stuff that comes through each week, or the tribal this or dragons that type articles that also are published throughout the week on Pure, you'll feel a little better. Pure has consistently improved (most of the time) over the last 2+ years, going from a site with little editting and mostly-bad articles to a site with videos and mostly-really-good articles.
I've been playing around with a Skullbriar deck this weekend. It's built around protecting him, putting extra counters on him, making sure he gets damage through, and removal. It's a lot of fun. I've had skullbriar up to 26/26 after a soul's might. You need to build counters quickly, if he's small in the mid to late game he's almost no threat to anyone.
Props:
The Splash Page had fairly priced beverages (and other stuff too, but a lot of stores will dollar-you for a soda) and a fast tournament (Deck building + 5 rounds in under 5 hours)
A dude named Ian was sitting next to me playing against A Small Child. Said Small Child was smashing him with a 9/9 trampler with Pro: Creatures. "AHAH YOU CAN'T TAKE A 9/9?" the kid was saying as Ian uncomfortable sat through it.
After game two the kid said, "Yea! I won!? Two games! Against you! Wow!" Ol' Ian took it in good stride, so he did good too. Apparently it was a big deal for A Small Child.
Slops
To me for being indecisive and missing two least 1 attack for 1 that would have probably won me the game in Round 3.
Goyf is not on the reserve list, but that does not mean that Wizards will necessarily reprint it anytime soon. They might, if it fits well in a set or special collection (e.g. Commander deck or FtV: something), but no guarantees. There are thousands of cool cards not on the reserve list that have never bee reprints (and lots of bad ones, too.)
I'd advise watching some of Deluxe's replays from a Pauper DE.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as "hating". I just hate it when the only POV we get about cards is whether they fit in tournament decks. And i hate being dismissed, as Katastrophe seemed to be doing, just because my concerns don't mesh with the needs of the tourney players.
To restate my point, I think the proposed modern format will be just as appealing to casual players, many of whom are a little intimidated by the size of the legacy card pool, as it is to potential tournament players. This format would allow me to dust off some of my old casual extended decks from before they truncated the format... decks that are simply out of place in legacy or classic, even amongst casual players. And I guess I'm completely alone in that opinion because the only response I got was to have Katastrophe completely ignore the point and act like I was talking about tournament decks.
No cards in futuresight were promised to be preprints - some would, some was incl. to spoil flavor of future worlds, some were redherrings. In this case it (together with some other card, I think) spoiled the planeswalker card type.
I suspect that wizards might reprint it at some point because, 1. it wasn't played that much in standard (bg discard played it, but I cant remember any other deck with it) 2. it would sell packs...
On the other hand some ppl would dislike it getting reprinted...
I've been playing the deluxered deck in a lot of playtests and it seems kind of weak. Maybe I'm not chaining correctly, but I do seem to have a lot of trouble against any kind of deck that has a counterspell, green decks that use the +1 life shaman, and anything that gets out fast infect, or even fast 1/1 and 2/2.
I'm not seeing many of the early turn kills. I'll record some just to see what others think.
*edit* Trimming some of the recordings now, but I was almost never able to go turn 2-4 with a remote chance of kill. I played a lot of decks that just had answers for everything DeluxRed attempted to do. Will Upload.
char49d brought up a great point about tarmogoyf becoming huge if modern becomes a more popular format. but it's from future sight with the reprint border surrounding it so it will be reprinted eventually right? or has wizards changed their minds and put the card on the no reprint list?
being a spike is bad and loathsome as far as people i like to play against. I know a good number of admitted spikes though and they tend to be pretty awesome guys and the ones i know are friendly to even help new players deck build, tweak, and test. Besides some of the spikiest players make the best casual fun decks in things like commander.
Pete, if you want to avoid the modern/overextended debate but still accede to deck price requests, you might ask the overextended crowd for a recent winning decklist that is modern legal - that way everyone wins.
As always, great wrap-ups.
No but you act like being a spike is a bad thing or loathsome (see "spiky spikerson". All points of views have generally been welcomed at puremtgo, but the speculation on Modern cards isn't for fun, it's for another potential sanctioned format...
I almost scrapped the vids because of that little tilt fest lol . Plan to fix that
Bite me, I've been commenting here for 2 years now. I'm a casual player and I make no apologies for it, I've generally felt fairly welcome here at PureMTGO. Or is this a Spike only website now?
Posts like the one above just need to be removed. Rid us of your ignorance, please.
"...keep mentioning modern and overextended, but the reality is very very very few people play those formats. ..."
Me and the hundreds of people that have shown up for Tuesday Night Overextended over the past month would tend to disagree with that statement. Dunno 'bout Modern, but Overextended is "live & kickin'".
Nicol Bolas didn't see play in standard. Without CB/Top and Thopter/Sword, you will see very different control decks, where cards like Teferi and mystical teachings are heavily played. Not having cards like Brainstorm, FOW and Daze completely changes a format, especially control and decks that prey on control/combo like merfolk.
No Swords, Hymn, Vindicate, Deed, Wasteland, factory, the format will look NOTHING like legacy. Porting over Zoo in a meta where people are prepared to face creatures is not going to be the same. I format without Counterspell is not going to be the same.