It got played in Extended, Type 1.5 (Legacy) and Type I (Vintage) - and all of those had true duals back then. Yes, technically, the dual had to have a forest, but it got you anything in the other half. But it was reveal your hand, show you have no lands. The reveal your hand was the big drawback.
I'm normally a block fan, but this block was just terrible (not you or your videos fault). The mana fixing in block is so limited it just makes for a boring format, all the best decks are either mono-colored or two colors playing wellspring control.
Not ever block is destined to have 5 color cascade, but this is the worst fixing I can remember, and it makes for some boring strategies compounded by cards like dismember.
He mentions it a little in his videos, but since he plays well and topdecks like a champ, you might not get how awkward Sphinx-Control decks can be. If you draw the wrong cards at the wrong time, which happens frequently, you will just lose. When you get the Wellspring/Lands hand vs Aggro or the Zenith/Sabotage hand vs Control it is quite miserable.
No, you can't use red cards with him as your commander. To be able to use red cards he would have to have the red mana symbol in his rules text. The word 'red' doesn't count.
It's why you can use blue with Memnarch as your commander, he actually has blue mana symbols on the card.
Color identity is determined by the mana symbols on the card. Although Balthor talks about Red creatures, he doesn't have a Red mana symbol on him. Therefore, he is a mono-Black Commander. Thelon of Havenwood, however, has both Black and Green mana symbols on him, so you should be able to use cards of those colors.
I admit that this game took place either the day before the new Commander product came out, or early that same day. The deck does pack Withered Wretch, Bojuka Bog and Geth for some graveyard disruption, as well as Vesuva to copy other Bogs. If you were really worried about additional recursion antics, I would probably go with Tormod's Crypt, or Phyrexian Furnace. I probably wouldn't go with Relic of Progenitus simply because this deck uses its own graveyard as a resource as well, and it would suck to lose it.
Oath does not always come down turn 1, Grudge does not always cost 1 with Spheres and in order to get it to cost 1 it had to be played for 2 most of the time unless it was Oathed or Discarded. Drain is still good at 3 or 4mana.
Nice article, and good job hosting these events, Niabock.
Having a deck I played show up in an article makes me feel like Steven Martin in the movie "The Jerk", when he sees his name in the phone book.
"I'm a somebody! I'm a somebody!"
That being said, Niabock's deck full of fat and sweepers OWNS my list (and any updates I made to it).
Not even close. Maybe some Forge-Tenders or Pilgrims of Virtue could help against the sweepers, but fighting through the beef is nuts. Most of my removal is too small for the big dudes.
I'll probably head in another direction for the next event I get to play in. I like the format for how it lets me play with some old favourite cards without having to face the old killer decks. I don't want to play Extended from 2001 or Standard from 2003, but it sure is fun playing with some of my favourite cards from back then.
A very interesting and unique take on a mono black deck. I like that you only put three tutors in. It keeps the deck from playing the same way every time.
Good timing too. I was just about to go to Gatherer to look for additional ways to make Skullbrier unblockable when I noticed Dauthi Embrace in your article. I'll have to pick one up.
I notice that you don't have much graveyard hate in your deck. Was this built before the Commander decks went online? Most decks now seem to have a big 'graveyard as a resource' component and I find I now need to run about double the amount of graveyard hate.
Banning sol ring is also never happening because it's in all of the commander decks. I do think it's pretty degenerate though. Connecting with thada adel a couple of times for a few sol rings is pretty degenerate.
Yeah I agree, the whole draft was a misspick. I'm sorry to say this, but that's the truth.
1. act of aggression is usually 2for1 for 3 colorless mana
2. if u r infect, the imp is way better then ish sah
3. control magic, but u know that already
And after that I stopped looking ;]
@Whiffy-Hurk's Recall, Mana Drain, Ancient Grudge and Oath are also 2 mana just like Serenity is. I think that if you can cast Hurk's/Oath you can cast Serenity with the added benefit of removing every thing they play and not for just a turn. I once cast Serenity for 5 mana with Dredge!! against Shops in a Daily.
Oath of druids cost 2 on t1 of the game, you cant cast serenity on t1 you have to wait till they have targets to cast it.
mana drain again can come down b4 there are +1's it even stops a sphere
grudge costs 1 from the graveyard
recall is the only one that is even on the same scale. the first 2 can come down before there are spheres. grudge can be played for the fid=rst artifact and it only costs 1 for the second. hurks and serenity both cost at least 2 and are only worth casting when there are a table full of spheres.
Thanks! As much of a cliché as it sounds, the overwhelmingly positive response and appreciation from the Classic community has made all the effort worth it.
@Whiffy-Hurk's Recall, Mana Drain, Ancient Grudge and Oath are also 2 mana just like Serenity is. I think that if you can cast Hurk's/Oath you can cast Serenity with the added benefit of removing every thing they play and not for just a turn. I once cast Serenity for 5 mana with Dredge!! against Shops in a Daily.
@Hammer-If Sol Ring becomes Repealed you net -1 mana( Repeal for 2mana->Sol Ring for 1= 3 mana) Mana Vault and Repeal even out and Mana Crypt nets +1 mana.
Personally, though I generally dislike Ravages of War and Armageddon and the like, I think they are a vital and underused effect. One of the most dreaded decks online, at least in my experience, is Azusa (and other mana ramp generals). However, these generals roll over and die to Armageddon. I think people should play spells like that in their decks and only used them when: A) they would be at a significant advantage after it resolved (e.g. win on the board, lots of artifact mana) or B) when it would take away the advantage of some who has been ramping all game. If more people did that (and didn't nuke all the lands just to start over again), people shouldn't have a problem with it. I mean, they probably still would, but they shouldn't. It would make people think twice before playing Azusa decks that run rampant on turn 4.
I'll admit I'm not talking my own advice. I don't actually run these cards in any of my decks (except one Hokori deck that I only play with a warning in the description).
As for infect, you have to remember that if you bring an infect deck to a multiplayer game, you aren't getting any help in doing damage from the other two players. BSC is expensive and hard to cheat into play, so he should have a strong affect to reward you for getting him on the battlefield. If they raised the poison level to 15, much less 20, no infect decks would be viable. As it is, there aren't many infect decks running around (which is probably a good thing. poison decks are pretty annoying). Still, if they raised the poison count, it would pretty much be the equivalent of banning all the infect cards since no one would play infect anymore. It would just be a worse form of whither.
Glad to see you getting involved in the community more. I would never be able to compete in such a league but it might be fun just because it is a league and at will as opposed to the more stressful scheduled encounters. Nice idea.
even casual commander decks are chock full of answers to combo. It is not uncommon for a combo deck to falter because a crucial spell was split second removed or countered. Combo definitely is an irritant in the format but it is not king.
I agree. Sol ring and mana vault are nice in your opener but by no means is it an instant win in a 4 player game...unless you are using a combo deck. Combo decks win anyways since they are playing combo in a field of casual decks.
As far as the banned list goes, overall I think the rules committee has done a decent job. The big area where i feel that they missed is blightsteel colossus. There should not be a creature that can hit for 40+ damage in one swing. Infect is a broken mechanic to start with, but in a format with double the starting life total infect is twice as good. Infect kills should require 20 poison instead of 10.
I also feel like most forms of mass land destruction should be banned. What does a card like armageddon bring to a format designed around the idea of everyone having fun?
The biggest mispick was pick 1. Act of agression is a windmill slam tham goes in every deck. You took a 3/1 over it....
A bunch of other mispicks too, but the act of aggression is a biggy and you guys didnt even notice it in the pack or you dont know what it does.
I found that the equipment worked well. There are only 5 pieces, and 4 of those work at protecting your creatures once Horobi comes out to play. Since it is up to you when you play Horobi, you can make sure that you get your critters equipped before he is in play. And it helps to have an indestructible Geth or Graveborn Muse. There are the occasional times where you draw the equipment while Horobi is in play, meaning it is a dead draw. But Horobi dies so often, it doesn't usually matter. Thornbite Staff worked once or twice, but was probably the weakest of the bunch.
Walkerdog, it sounds like you are more upset with the banned list than the recent changes. I'm just playing with what they give me.
And Dauthi Embrace is really good. I was always happy when I drew it.
I have heard this a lot, being bummed about missing it... which, to me, is a good thing that so many people are at least interested to join. =) The scheduling of matches is pretty decent. You have about a 3-day window to play 1 match, so it isn't so time consuming. I'm guessing Season 2 will be mid-late August. Will post another article on Pure with more info later. Hope to see you there! =D
Yes, this tournament is – in a way – designed for those like you (and me). Spreading it out over time is also great for me, because I have the time to get all the admin done.
Regarding the player count, there were also several people who couldn't make this one. I do believe it will get more and more players and I'm not in the least bit worried about its future. =D
Appreciate the shoutout.
It got played in Extended, Type 1.5 (Legacy) and Type I (Vintage) - and all of those had true duals back then. Yes, technically, the dual had to have a forest, but it got you anything in the other half. But it was reveal your hand, show you have no lands. The reveal your hand was the big drawback.
I'm normally a block fan, but this block was just terrible (not you or your videos fault). The mana fixing in block is so limited it just makes for a boring format, all the best decks are either mono-colored or two colors playing wellspring control.
Not ever block is destined to have 5 color cascade, but this is the worst fixing I can remember, and it makes for some boring strategies compounded by cards like dismember.
He mentions it a little in his videos, but since he plays well and topdecks like a champ, you might not get how awkward Sphinx-Control decks can be. If you draw the wrong cards at the wrong time, which happens frequently, you will just lose. When you get the Wellspring/Lands hand vs Aggro or the Zenith/Sabotage hand vs Control it is quite miserable.
No, you can't use red cards with him as your commander. To be able to use red cards he would have to have the red mana symbol in his rules text. The word 'red' doesn't count.
It's why you can use blue with Memnarch as your commander, he actually has blue mana symbols on the card.
Color identity is determined by the mana symbols on the card. Although Balthor talks about Red creatures, he doesn't have a Red mana symbol on him. Therefore, he is a mono-Black Commander. Thelon of Havenwood, however, has both Black and Green mana symbols on him, so you should be able to use cards of those colors.
I admit that this game took place either the day before the new Commander product came out, or early that same day. The deck does pack Withered Wretch, Bojuka Bog and Geth for some graveyard disruption, as well as Vesuva to copy other Bogs. If you were really worried about additional recursion antics, I would probably go with Tormod's Crypt, or Phyrexian Furnace. I probably wouldn't go with Relic of Progenitus simply because this deck uses its own graveyard as a resource as well, and it would suck to lose it.
Point of order on Land Grant though...it's no LAND cards in hand..not just no cards in hand, and it only searches forests out.
I'm a bit confused on the whole color identity thing: will Balthor the Defiled allow you to use red cards now?
Yes sir, am aware.
Oath does not always come down turn 1, Grudge does not always cost 1 with Spheres and in order to get it to cost 1 it had to be played for 2 most of the time unless it was Oathed or Discarded. Drain is still good at 3 or 4mana.
Nice article, and good job hosting these events, Niabock.
Having a deck I played show up in an article makes me feel like Steven Martin in the movie "The Jerk", when he sees his name in the phone book.
"I'm a somebody! I'm a somebody!"
That being said, Niabock's deck full of fat and sweepers OWNS my list (and any updates I made to it).
Not even close. Maybe some Forge-Tenders or Pilgrims of Virtue could help against the sweepers, but fighting through the beef is nuts. Most of my removal is too small for the big dudes.
I'll probably head in another direction for the next event I get to play in. I like the format for how it lets me play with some old favourite cards without having to face the old killer decks. I don't want to play Extended from 2001 or Standard from 2003, but it sure is fun playing with some of my favourite cards from back then.
rtrtr
A very interesting and unique take on a mono black deck. I like that you only put three tutors in. It keeps the deck from playing the same way every time.
Good timing too. I was just about to go to Gatherer to look for additional ways to make Skullbrier unblockable when I noticed Dauthi Embrace in your article. I'll have to pick one up.
I notice that you don't have much graveyard hate in your deck. Was this built before the Commander decks went online? Most decks now seem to have a big 'graveyard as a resource' component and I find I now need to run about double the amount of graveyard hate.
Banning sol ring is also never happening because it's in all of the commander decks. I do think it's pretty degenerate though. Connecting with thada adel a couple of times for a few sol rings is pretty degenerate.
Yeah I agree, the whole draft was a misspick. I'm sorry to say this, but that's the truth.
1. act of aggression is usually 2for1 for 3 colorless mana
2. if u r infect, the imp is way better then ish sah
3. control magic, but u know that already
And after that I stopped looking ;]
@Whiffy-Hurk's Recall, Mana Drain, Ancient Grudge and Oath are also 2 mana just like Serenity is. I think that if you can cast Hurk's/Oath you can cast Serenity with the added benefit of removing every thing they play and not for just a turn. I once cast Serenity for 5 mana with Dredge!! against Shops in a Daily.
Oath of druids cost 2 on t1 of the game, you cant cast serenity on t1 you have to wait till they have targets to cast it.
mana drain again can come down b4 there are +1's it even stops a sphere
grudge costs 1 from the graveyard
recall is the only one that is even on the same scale. the first 2 can come down before there are spheres. grudge can be played for the fid=rst artifact and it only costs 1 for the second. hurks and serenity both cost at least 2 and are only worth casting when there are a table full of spheres.
Thanks! As much of a cliché as it sounds, the overwhelmingly positive response and appreciation from the Classic community has made all the effort worth it.
MMOgg is my hero <3! Great article and the formating of the deck lists is awesome. Taking bets Blue's GushVault wins it all!
@Whiffy-Hurk's Recall, Mana Drain, Ancient Grudge and Oath are also 2 mana just like Serenity is. I think that if you can cast Hurk's/Oath you can cast Serenity with the added benefit of removing every thing they play and not for just a turn. I once cast Serenity for 5 mana with Dredge!! against Shops in a Daily.
@Hammer-If Sol Ring becomes Repealed you net -1 mana( Repeal for 2mana->Sol Ring for 1= 3 mana) Mana Vault and Repeal even out and Mana Crypt nets +1 mana.
@Zach- Why Surgical over Extirpate?
Enric plays Gush and Prolepsis plays Jacerator.
Personally, though I generally dislike Ravages of War and Armageddon and the like, I think they are a vital and underused effect. One of the most dreaded decks online, at least in my experience, is Azusa (and other mana ramp generals). However, these generals roll over and die to Armageddon. I think people should play spells like that in their decks and only used them when: A) they would be at a significant advantage after it resolved (e.g. win on the board, lots of artifact mana) or B) when it would take away the advantage of some who has been ramping all game. If more people did that (and didn't nuke all the lands just to start over again), people shouldn't have a problem with it. I mean, they probably still would, but they shouldn't. It would make people think twice before playing Azusa decks that run rampant on turn 4.
I'll admit I'm not talking my own advice. I don't actually run these cards in any of my decks (except one Hokori deck that I only play with a warning in the description).
As for infect, you have to remember that if you bring an infect deck to a multiplayer game, you aren't getting any help in doing damage from the other two players. BSC is expensive and hard to cheat into play, so he should have a strong affect to reward you for getting him on the battlefield. If they raised the poison level to 15, much less 20, no infect decks would be viable. As it is, there aren't many infect decks running around (which is probably a good thing. poison decks are pretty annoying). Still, if they raised the poison count, it would pretty much be the equivalent of banning all the infect cards since no one would play infect anymore. It would just be a worse form of whither.
Glad to see you getting involved in the community more. I would never be able to compete in such a league but it might be fun just because it is a league and at will as opposed to the more stressful scheduled encounters. Nice idea.
even casual commander decks are chock full of answers to combo. It is not uncommon for a combo deck to falter because a crucial spell was split second removed or countered. Combo definitely is an irritant in the format but it is not king.
I agree. Sol ring and mana vault are nice in your opener but by no means is it an instant win in a 4 player game...unless you are using a combo deck. Combo decks win anyways since they are playing combo in a field of casual decks.
As far as the banned list goes, overall I think the rules committee has done a decent job. The big area where i feel that they missed is blightsteel colossus. There should not be a creature that can hit for 40+ damage in one swing. Infect is a broken mechanic to start with, but in a format with double the starting life total infect is twice as good. Infect kills should require 20 poison instead of 10.
I also feel like most forms of mass land destruction should be banned. What does a card like armageddon bring to a format designed around the idea of everyone having fun?
The biggest mispick was pick 1. Act of agression is a windmill slam tham goes in every deck. You took a 3/1 over it....
A bunch of other mispicks too, but the act of aggression is a biggy and you guys didnt even notice it in the pack or you dont know what it does.
I found that the equipment worked well. There are only 5 pieces, and 4 of those work at protecting your creatures once Horobi comes out to play. Since it is up to you when you play Horobi, you can make sure that you get your critters equipped before he is in play. And it helps to have an indestructible Geth or Graveborn Muse. There are the occasional times where you draw the equipment while Horobi is in play, meaning it is a dead draw. But Horobi dies so often, it doesn't usually matter. Thornbite Staff worked once or twice, but was probably the weakest of the bunch.
Walkerdog, it sounds like you are more upset with the banned list than the recent changes. I'm just playing with what they give me.
And Dauthi Embrace is really good. I was always happy when I drew it.
I have heard this a lot, being bummed about missing it... which, to me, is a good thing that so many people are at least interested to join. =) The scheduling of matches is pretty decent. You have about a 3-day window to play 1 match, so it isn't so time consuming. I'm guessing Season 2 will be mid-late August. Will post another article on Pure with more info later. Hope to see you there! =D
Hey Andrew,
Yes, this tournament is – in a way – designed for those like you (and me). Spreading it out over time is also great for me, because I have the time to get all the admin done.
Regarding the player count, there were also several people who couldn't make this one. I do believe it will get more and more players and I'm not in the least bit worried about its future. =D